The truth about Ken Bigley

[Gwylan]

I'd be interested to know what the people who think that Bigley was a 'mercenary'and 'only there for the money' would do with Iraq.

Given that we've bombed the place to buggery and there's massive reconstruction work to do, and that the local workforce does not have all the skills to do it, what should be done?

Do you seriously think that western engineers would go there unless the financial rewards were massive? Or perhaps you think that the Iraqis would be quite happy living in a bombed-out country without modern utilities?

For the life of me, I don't understand the attitude that Bigley contributed to his death because he was in it for the money. If you accept that the country has to be rebuilt, then someone has to go there.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Iraqi's are not at all happy to have their leader deposed. .

He was such a jolly , friendly chap wasn't he. Nice old Uncle Hussein, always there with a joke and a smile to cheer his subjects up. He really was a great chap and shame on us.

Nice chap wasn't he ... very fond of gassing people ... 20,000 in one go ... what a guy ...

Zarqawi is not an Iraqi ... he's a Jordanian and a sunni Muslem. He has admitted to the recent bombings of the Mosque's because he hates Shia Muslems. He has to do it this way as he hasn't got Sadam's protection to do it 'legally'.
It is generally believed that his group are responsible for the suicide bombings ... not Sadr's gunmen.

Sadr wants the US out because he knows he can't win power through the ballot box. The reason that we have got off lightly is because The Shia's od Basra know the reason we are there and understand the need (they don't like Sadr), they want us out but don't see the need for violence.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I find this " Bigley was a mercenary " totally fecking reprehensible. They guy was making a living for himself, he may genuinely have wanted to help the Iraqi people ( and get paid for it, its not a crime you know ) and also this rose tinted glasses view of Saddam Hussein is most most bizarre. Most of the shit going on in Iraq is from people who have crossed the borders to go into Iraq to ply their trade of disorder, terrorism and hate not the Iraqi people.

 

[Northstander]

I'd be interested to know what the people who think that Bigley was a 'mercenary'and 'only there for the money' would do with Iraq.

Given that we've bombed the place to buggery and there's massive reconstruction work to do, and that the local workforce does not have all the skills to do it, what should be done?

Do you seriously think that western engineers would go there unless the financial rewards were massive? Or perhaps you think that the Iraqis would be quite happy living in a bombed-out country without modern utilities?

For the life of me, I don't understand the attitude that Bigley contributed to his death because he was in it for the money. If you accept that the country has to be rebuilt, then someone has to go there.

just wanted to say, I do not under any circumstances blame the situation solely on him going there for money. All I was saying is that the reason he was there was purely "to earn a living!"

Although I would have left when the opportunity arose rather than get another job in first. RIP anyhow..

On Iraq, We will not leave that country due to the region having a lot of the world Oil stock and the US and Britain will never let some terrorist organisation or some government in a country full of unrest control the world oil stock and it's pricing...(i may be wrong though)

 

[Marc]

I was really puzzled why the football matches had a minutes silence for him.

If it was a football related death, a member of a club or even someone in royalty or parliament then I could have understood it but why him?

Am I being callous or, like was said on here a few weeks back, it is devaluing the respect of a minute's silence by having it for all and sundry?

agree totally Yorkie, if we have a minutes silence for him then why not every tom dick and harry that dies day in day out. Bloody ridiculous.

He knew the dangers, one TV spot I saw said that he was told to move away from that area as it was a hot spot and he refused to go....dont know how true that is as its straight outta the media but still....he was in Iraq and the danger was there for all to see.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Iraq is only the beginning for Bush & the poodle Blair. Iran is next, then North Korea culminating in a contrived confict with China which doesn't bear thinking about. It's all in the PNAC!

 

[readingstockport]

Nice chap wasn't he ... very fond of gassing people ... 20,000 in one go ... what a guy ...

Been avoiding this thread but comments like this one really piss me off. Yes Saddam gassed his own people - with the conivance and support or the west and the UK and US governments amongst others. Don't forget which current prime minister of this country refused to sign an early day motion whilst in opposition condemning Saddam for gassing his people, just as a certain current leader of the opposition also did so whilst in government at the time.

No-one said he was nice but I recall all too clearly what the right wing were calling those of us who demonstrated against UK support for Saddam in the 1980's. We were blind, naieve and stupid. He was 'our' sob so we were wrong.

Turns out we were right all along and the sad lonely right wing wankers who STILL wont appologise were the ones who werwrong all along.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Mercenary is too strong a word, has all sorts of pejorative meanings about doing things that are wrong for money, and he was doing a respectable job. Even if you think he was a bit greedy (if I was offered £30,000 for a month's work in Iraq tomorrow, I wouldn't go - nor would I have before this happened, everyone knew it was a militia-fest), as has been said no-one deserves that for Christs sake.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Been avoiding this thread but comments like this one really piss me off. Yes Saddam gassed his own people - with the conivance and support or the west and the UK and US governments amongst others. Don't forget which current prime minister of this country refused to sign an early day motion whilst in opposition condemning Saddam for gassing his people, just as a certain current leader of the opposition also did so whilst in government at the time.

No-one said he was nice but I recall all too clearly what the right wing were calling those of us who demonstrated against UK support for Saddam in the 1980's. We were blind, naieve and stupid. He was 'our' sob so we were wrong.

Turns out we were right all along and the sad lonely right wing wankers who STILL wont appologise were the ones who werwrong all along.

Sorry, my comment wasn't a lets 'support the right wing groups'. Lets face it the only reason he was supported was because he had it in for Iran who (at the time) were enemy #1. It was more of a .... let's not forget what a bastard he is .... something that seems to be happening with more and more regularity. The aurgument that Iraq's wouldn't be killed if the war hadn't happen are just not true, he was getting through the popualtion at a great rate of knots, the Marsh people were on the edge of extinction and he was killing Kurds in large numbers right up to the begin of the war.

I'm glad he's gone but like many are very hacked off with the lack of forsight for what needs to happen after the war.
BTW before anyone asks ... I hold GWB in complete contempt, because that bastard just interested in money and power.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Some reasons why Bigley's case deserves 'special' UK media attention:

1. The fate of the 3 hostages was being played out to the rest of the world's media too.
2. The manner of his death, and that of the other hostages, was particularly barbaric.
3. He was a normal British bloke going about his business, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Stories of this nature, i.e. "There but for the grace of God go I" always capture the public imagination.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Some reasons why Bigley's case deserves 'special' UK media attention:

1. The fate of the 3 hostages was being played out to the rest of the world's media too.
2. The manner of his death, and that of the other hostages, was particularly barbaric.
3. He was a normal British bloke going about his business, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Stories of this nature, i.e. "There but for the grace of God go I" always capture the public imagination.

Number 2 is a very valid point. Number 3 - total arse. He didn't just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, like say the victims of the Madrid bombing. He had placed himself in a dangerous situation, for which he was receiving considerable financial reward.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I expect Bigley weighed up the chances of him being blown up by a bomb or mortar, car being hijacked etc and thought the risk was worth taking. The chances of dying in this way, even in Iraq, are small.

However, nobody can legislate for the possibility of being kidnapped and beheaded for all the world to see. It could have been any UK male that was picked up, it just happened to be him.

 

[readingstockport]

Sorry, my comment wasn't a lets 'support the right wing groups'. Lets face it the only reason he was supported was because he had it in for Iran who (at the time) were enemy #1. It was more of a .... let's not forget what a bastard he is .... something that seems to be happening with more and more regularity. The aurgument that Iraq's wouldn't be killed if the war hadn't happen are just not true, he was getting through the popualtion at a great rate of knots, the Marsh people were on the edge of extinction and he was killing Kurds in large numbers right up to the begin of the war.

I'm glad he's gone but like many are very hacked off with the lack of forsight for what needs to happen after the war.
BTW before anyone asks ... I hold GWB in complete contempt, because that bastard just interested in money and power.

My appologies DS. But this comment usually gets thrown at me by exactly the kind of people who were calling me stupid and left wing in the 80's when I was going on demos against SH. Sorry forlumping you in with them.

 

[Simster]

I expect Bigley weighed up the chances of him being blown up by a bomb or mortar, car being hijacked etc and thought the risk was worth taking. The chances of dying in this way, even in Iraq, are small.

However, nobody can legislate for the possibility of being kidnapped and beheaded for all the world to see. It could have been any UK male that was picked up, it just happened to be him.

All true, but you said "He was a normal British bloke going about his business, who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time." In my eyes, no Brit just "happens to be" in a country like Iraq. I'm sure he weighed up the risk, but I suspect the dangers were certainly on his mind at some point in the thought process...

 

[Pavilionaire]

Ok, fair enough.

The point I was trying to make is that he was a normal civilian bloke, not in the firing line like someone in the armed forces.

Of course, we now know that the firing line applies to anyone and everyone...

 

[readingstockport]

Of course, we now know that the firing line applies to anyone and everyone...

But it always has done, especially in modern times. The entire object of munitions like cluster bombs and land mines is to maximise civilian casualties in order to overload the infrastructure of the enemy. It just coming home a bit more no due to media coverage.

As ever people like Ken Bigley will pay the price whilst the real guilty people, like Bush senior, Reagan, Thatcher, various Russian leaders and sundry french leaders sit in tehir palaces crying fake tears.

Sometimes I wish I believed in god because if god has any integrity there can be no way those bastards will be forgiven for what they've done but people like KB may just get a chance at heaven.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

But it always has done, especially in modern times. The entire object of munitions like cluster bombs and land mines is to maximise civilian casualties in order to overload the infrastructure of the enemy. It just coming home a bit more no due to media coverage.

As ever people like Ken Bigley will pay the price whilst the real guilty people, like Bush senior, Reagan, Thatcher, various Russian leaders and sundry french leaders sit in tehir palaces crying fake tears.

Sometimes I wish I believed in god because if god has any integrity there can be no way those bastards will be forgiven for what they've done but people like KB may just get a chance at heaven.

I have a mate who works in saudi, he knows the risks and accepts them, what he does say is that people just don't believe it will happen to them, they think its easy money. As my mate say's "you don't get something for nothing". But end of the day regardless if he was money grabbing or not, he didn't deserve it, no one does. The guy who is guilty isn't one of the above (thatcher et al) as much as I would like them to be, its a Jordanian !!

As for cluster bombs and the such like, you give the designers to much credence, they weren't meant for civilians at first .... they only found this out a bit later after field trials .........

 

[NMH]

There is one cause for the public-at-large to give respects though;

When people are involved in someone's plight in such a detailed way, these people need to mourn. Whether or not we agree about this person, there are many out there who do not question the whys and wherefores, they just require some sort of feeling of closure.
There it is, perhaps not for everyone's psyche, but I imagine it works that way for a lot of others, and I imagine that occurs to the decision-makers who deem such respect-payments to be necessary.

 

[Juan Albion]

And yet you trust journalists? I know who I would trust first

Hell's bells, who said anything about journalists? Where did that come from? I'd put them in the same boat as politicians.