[Football] The Monday Debate - If Liverpool Win the Champions League....

[Guinness Boy]

Driving back on Sunday and there was an interesting debate point on 606 (albeit ruined by the morons that phone in as usual).

Very simply, if Liverpool win the Champions League, can they call themselves the best side in Europe. For - they'll have beaten Man City, Roma and Real Madrid and be the holders of the biggest club trophy in Europe.

Against - could only finish 4th in their own league. Decent starting XI but not a good enough squad. In other words, a Cup team.

Personally I don't think they are, but what else can you use to measure them against Juve, Bayren, Barca and Man City who all missed out, plus they beat City three times this season?

Sub debate - should we go back to a true Champions competition where you have to win your league to qualify? I'd love that but it's obviously never going to happen.

 

[Hamilton]

It's an odd one isn't it. I don't think there is any absolute measure for Europe.

I think all you can say is that they are amongst the top sides in Europe. A few years ago, you couldn't say that about them at all.

The fact that we are playing a league game against a side that could go onto take that title is a measure of how far we have come. Of all the Top 6 sides, I'd like to get a result against them next season.

 

[Simster]

People look misty-eyed at previous formats of European competition. They forget that they were often a bit of a non-event until the quarter finals. Personally, I quite like the current format of the UCL and the EL. Granted, the EL is looked upon as a plate competition by the world's elite clubs until the quarter final stage, but it really isn't for just about every provincial club on the continent.

As for Liverpool, I don't think they are either. However, if they had finished 2nd or 3rd, a couple of points behind the winners and then got to where they are now, THEN I think they'd have a case.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Oh, yes, I realise it's ****ing TUESDAY. Now.

I blame football and the 606 being on Sunday.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Nope.

A tournament structure is the most exciting, enjoyable ranking format, but it is not a truest representation of quality. Wigan won the FA cup. They were not the best team in England.

Still, good luck to them. Great team to watch.

 

[FatSuperman]

A knock out competition is a lot more random than a league. Over a season, your luck usually evens out, but in a tournament you can just play well or have your opponents play poorly, basically just be lucky on the day and you're through. Obviously the better teams have a greater chance in general, but I'd say winning a top, competitive league is more impressive than the CL.

I guess the debate is about which is the most competitive league.

 

[The Optimist]

On the sub-debate point what I've always thought is that just having the winners would mean the Champions League would be full of the best teams from last season not this season. For example Chelsea would have been the only English team in the Champions League this season but are clearly not the best team in England this year.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Nope.

A tournament structure is the most exciting, enjoyable ranking format, but it is not a truest representation of quality. Wigan won the FA cup. They were not the best team in England.

Still, good luck to them. Great team to watch.

All of that^^

 

[beorhthelm]

its the same as asking if the winner of the FA cup is the best team in England. the answer is of course no, they won that competition.

 

[ManOfSussex]

No - Group stages or not, it's still a cup competition. The last time Liverpool won it, they weren't the best side in Europe either. There's been plenty of winners of The EC/CL who were the best side in Europe - AC Milan, Real Madrid etc but there's a fair few who weren't - Aston Villa in 1982 finished 11th in The 1st Division that year, Forest in 1980 finished 5th in The 1st Division, Chelsea in 2012 finished 6th in The Premier League........ There's been non English winners such as Porto in 2004, Steaua Bucharest in 1986 who weren't the best side too. (What might have been with the Everton League winning side of 1985 had they competed in The European Cup the following year)

 

[A1X]

No, a knockout cup competition throws up too many potentially result-altering scenarios. A league is the better arbiter as it is more of a meritocracy of results, and this clearly shows Liverpool are 4th best in the country as a team, but that there's not an awful lot between United, Chelsea, Spurs and them. This is probably about right, but also that City are head and shoulders above them all which is bang on.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Alas no awards are given out for the subjective 'best'.

Liverpool, should they win, would sport 6 trophies on their shirts or whatever, not giving a flying #### whether they are regarded as best or not.

 

[nicko31]

Its a Cup competition, NO

 

[Eeyore]

Same as most of the above really.

Liverpool would be the champions of Europe but certainly not the best side. If they were they wouldn't have finished 25 points behind Manchester City.

 

[papajaff]

Reminds me of the question: Is Ringo Starr the best drummer in the world?

Whoever wins the European Cup this year isn't even the best team in their country.

 

[MattBackHome]

The latter stages of the CL is the closest thing we currently have to a breakaway league of giant clubs. Personally, I find Liverpool (for example) a much more compelling watch when they are up against the very best, compared to when they are delivering a trousering to the likes of us. Like it or not, the Champions League KO stages are utter box office, and I reckon they are the best advert for a breakaway league.

As I've said before on here, I hope the top 6 (or whatever) do one and leave normal football to the rest of us.

 

[withdeanwombat]

Going back to a Champions Cup would obviously help those managers who complain about fixture congestion, but those i/c finances would have heart failure.

However, as the game is all about money, perhaps there could be both a Champions League AND a Champions Cup running concurrently, thus adding to some clubs’ income whilst only marginally increasing the apoplexy of a very few managers.

TV providers would love it!

 

[Is it PotG?]

As I've said before on here, I hope the top 6 (or whatever) do one and leave normal football to the rest of us.

In reality, only City, Liverpool and Chelsea gave us a real 'lesson' this season.

 

[MattBackHome]

In reality, only City, Liverpool and Chelsea gave us a real 'lesson' this season.

Indeed - but if you played each of the Top 6 teams 100 times you'd expect them to dish out lessons to us in somewhere approaching moderately equal measure (apart from Man City who would do it 100 times).

Get rid I say.

 

[Southern Scouse]

So, I suppose that is the same as the World Cup?
In my totally unbiased opinion, if the Redmen win they are by far the best team in Europe....
Same as if England win the World Cup, we will rule the footballing world!!!!
Then again, next year is another story....