[Politics] The Labour Government

[hart's shirt]

*Triple post* (oops)

 

[Weststander]

I think I detect a note of caution as to whether this will play out and, if so, I share it. The German car industry and cheaper Chinese EVs does feed into the larger issue of the role of tariffs, etc and how they'll play out in the mid-term future. Again, we shall see.

I’m thinking also that the EU, Norway, UK and Switzerland is such a large market in its own right, that it can self sustain economic activity. No matter the race to the bottom on plastics, CO2 production, slave labour and destruction reaped by India and China. In the same way that the US hasn’t collapsed economically since the first talk of that with the first oil crisis, 1973?

Political instability and inwards migration are the threats. Far right parties thriving in France, Austria and Hungary.

 

[Boroseagull]

Here we go again. How many of these types actually have the balls and/or gumption to get off their arses and actually do it? Zero? Next to none? Hollow words.

Not so easy to do now post BREXIT.

 

[Weststander]

Funnily enough, I have the same issue with the Guardian. Some of their editorial pieces are absolutely hilarious, but nobody in their right mind could take them seriously

I stopped reading those with the first lockdown.

The Guardian spent two years calling for ever more restrictions, they party politicised all CV19 matters, point blank rarely mentioning CV19 bad news on the continent, merchants of doom right to the bitter end into 2022.

Lesson learned. Never read newspaper editorials or editorials masquerading as factual pieces.

 

[The Clamp]

Not doing great work, are they. So far they have;

Taken away heating subsidy for old people.

Increased school fees for kids.

Now they are going to raise tax for employers. Including small businesses etc.


Labour, even though I think Starmer is a snake, I want you to do well and I like you but you’re making it very f***ing hard at the moment!

 

[Marshy]

They are a dead man walking already.

Going to push anyone with money out of the country. Which is not clever.

 

[jcdenton08]

This is not what I hoped for when I backed Labour. I know they’ve got a hard job inheriting that mess, but they’re opening wars on so many fronts. And all this before a budget. It’s not good

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Question - IF, and it's not been confirmed as yet, NI for employers (only) is increased, do you see this an a tax increase on 'working people.'?

Keir Starmer does not rule out NI rise for employers

Sir Keir Starmer says this month's Budget was "going to be tough" but would "focus on rebuilding our country".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[pb21]

Question - IF, and it's not been confirmed as yet, NI for employers (only) is increased, do you see this an a tax increase on 'working people.'?

Keir Starmer does not rule out NI rise for employers

Sir Keir Starmer says this month's Budget was "going to be tough" but would "focus on rebuilding our country".

www.bbc.co.uk

I work and pay NI on my salary. If I don’t pay more NI in future then I would say I, as a worker, haven’t been subject to any NI tax increase.

 

[Weststander]

Question - IF, and it's not been confirmed as yet, NI for employers (only) is increased, do you see this an a tax increase on 'working people.'?

Keir Starmer does not rule out NI rise for employers

Sir Keir Starmer says this month's Budget was "going to be tough" but would "focus on rebuilding our country".

www.bbc.co.uk

Obviously not directly on “staff” immediately. But then do employers, especially the many struggling eg in hospitality, throw in the towel, employ fewer staff and/or suppress later wage increases?

There’s no free tax lunch without consequences.

People shouldn’t see this in terms of Amazon or their own wealthy bosses. R4 said yesterday the UK restaurant business now is 20% lower than pre pandemic.

 

[The Clamp]

The fact Labour didn’t go for these fuckers

when they got into power makes me seriously doubt they have the stones needed to fix this nation.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Question - IF, and it's not been confirmed as yet, NI for employers (only) is increased, do you see this an a tax increase on 'working people.'?

Keir Starmer does not rule out NI rise for employers

Sir Keir Starmer says this month's Budget was "going to be tough" but would "focus on rebuilding our country".

www.bbc.co.uk

Yes.

The beauty of increasing employer's NIC, from the government's point of view, is that it the practical effect falls entirely on the private sector. If the government has to pay an extra (say) 5% tax on wages, then they are paying it to themselves and can funnel it straight back to the employer (themselves). So there is no reason at all for public service workers to suffer.

Private enterprise, on the other hand, does suffer. If the wages budget is faced with a 5% rise, then they have three basic options - put prices up for the customer, pay the staff less (or reduce their wage rise), or reduce profits. They may choose option 3 in part, but not in full, so both the consumer and the staff will suffer.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Disappointing.
Same old shit, when a radical rethink was required.

The reality of an NI hike on employers, means further reductions on pay reviews, which will reduce tax takings.
There are plenty of legitimate targets for increasing the tax burden.

Bottling this challenge, is a massive mistake.

 

[amexer]

Looks like majority on here would be happy for all of very wealthy to bugger off. I have never met any of them but what I do know they contribute huge tax in UK. For eg I believe there are in region of 70k non doms in uk who contribute about £6b of tax in UK. Thats excluding all the people they employ. As I have said before so easy in opposition to say go for the very wealthy but once in government become appreciative of the tax income from these.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Yes.

The beauty of increasing employer's NIC, from the government's point of view, is that it the practical effect falls entirely on the private sector. If the government has to pay an extra (say) 5% tax on wages, then they are paying it to themselves and can funnel it straight back to the employer (themselves). So there is no reason at all for public service workers to suffer.

Private enterprise, on the other hand, does suffer. If the wages budget is faced with a 5% rise, then they have three basic options - put prices up for the customer, pay the staff less (or reduce their wage rise), or reduce profits. They may choose option 3 in part, but not in full, so both the consumer and the staff will suffer.

Yep.

 

[jcdenton08]

Looks like majority on here would be happy for all of very wealthy to bugger off. I have never met any of them but what I do know they contribute huge tax in UK. For eg I believe there are in region of 70k non doms in uk who contribute about £6b of tax in UK. Thats excluding all the people they employ. As I have said before so easy in opposition to say go for the very wealthy but once in government become appreciative of the tax income from these.

I’m not sure about that bit, but obviously I can’t speak for everyone. I recognise the need for wealthy people, usually because they are in business providing not just corporation tax, but jobs to help unemployment, the tax those jobs provide, and it becomes an infinite feedback loop which leads to national wealth. It’s basic economics.

What a lot of people, myself included, don’t want to see is huge companies holding their UK operations to ransom by virtue of the jobs they offer, getting away with paying nominal tax.

We need the very wealthy, on the basis they contribute pro rata to their wealth. Not just personal wealth, but the wealth they create, which usually works in their favour given they are usually massive employers.

 

[nicko31]

Looks like majority on here would be happy for all of very wealthy to bugger off. I have never met any of them but what I do know they contribute huge tax in UK. For eg I believe there are in region of 70k non doms in uk who contribute about £6b of tax in UK. Thats excluding all the people they employ. As I have said before so easy in opposition to say go for the very wealthy but once in government become appreciative of the tax income from these.

Brexit has been costing us £35B a year, we can handle of couple more. Non-doms can f**k off and lets ease the self imposed trade sanctions to plug the hole

 

[pb21]

Yes.

The beauty of increasing employer's NIC, from the government's point of view, is that it the practical effect falls entirely on the private sector. If the government has to pay an extra (say) 5% tax on wages, then they are paying it to themselves and can funnel it straight back to the employer (themselves). So there is no reason at all for public service workers to suffer.

Private enterprise, on the other hand, does suffer. If the wages budget is faced with a 5% rise, then they have three basic options - put prices up for the customer, pay the staff less (or reduce their wage rise), or reduce profits. They may choose option 3 in part, but not in full, so both the consumer and the staff will suffer.

So the consumer and staff will suffer (possibly/probably, who knows to what extent) but will working staffs NI tax paid increase?

Ultimately there isn't a magic money tree as much as we would like there to be one.

So either tax revenue increases (employers NI for eg) or spending decreases.

 

[Forster's Armband]

Not doing great work, are they. So far they have;

Taken away heating subsidy for old people.

Increased school fees for kids.

Now they are going to raise tax for employers. Including small businesses etc.


Labour, even though I think Starmer is a snake, I want you to do well and I like you but you’re making it very f***ing hard at the moment!

I don't think they doing a good job so far (sadly) but.

They took away the heating allowance from people who can afford not to have it (for the most part), they need to make sure if some fall through the cracks they catch them.

They increased School fees for private school kids (my son goes to a private school and I am ok with it) the key thing is that the money raised goes to help start repairing our neglected and crumbling (literally) state school system.

They have to raise taxes somewhere to try and get the economy to grow. No one in this country ever wants taxes raised but we all want a better standard of living and a growing economy, better services, and low interest rates.

They've made gaffs as well and I do worry that they are just serving up more of the same old shit. My hope/feeling is that they will gradually be more and more radical and come the next election the country will be in a better place. At the moment it isn't great though.

 

[Jim in the West]

I lost all confidence in this paper when their business section ran an article of my industry and it was riddled with inaccuracies and untruths. How can I trust anything they write?

My industry is heavily regulated and as a consequence a lot, if not all, of this regulation is avalilable to view.....most of the rubbish they wrote could easily have been fact checked. But they chose not to.

I had a similar experience about 20 years ago, when the company I worked for had some significant issues, which actually ended up being world-wide news for a fews days. ALL mainstream media in the UK wrote an absolute load of bollocks for several days, with the sole exception of the FT. Since then I have taken pretty much everything I read in any newspaper with a large pinch of salt....a huge amount is written with vested interests at heart.

Having said all that, I still believe the Guardian, by and large, is a decent newspaper - at least it's not owned by a tax exile or some crazy right-wing organisation. It's politics is generally more or less aligned with mine (except when the odious Owen Jones gets a column). It's also far better for your mental health, compared to the hatred and bile which seems to come from the likes of the Mail, Express, Telegraph et al. But if you want to trust what you're reading, the FT is undoubtedly the best bet in the UK (maybe the NYT or Le Monde internationally)....