[Politics] The Labour Government

[Is it PotG?]

I certainly don’t think anyone was as bad as the last few Tory governments but yes, they all certainly like to live the high life at someone else’s expense. It’s out of control.

Comparing different groups is subjective and relative, the here and now is what matters.

 

[The Clamp]

Comparing different groups is subjective and relative, the here and now is what matters.

I meant in the context of “they’re all the same”. That implies we are comparing them to each other. But I get your point.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Poor old Keir. He does appear to be a fundamentally decent bloke but he does seem to be blundering from one self-inflicted shitstorm to another at the moment.

And just when he needs his top team to put on a united front and share the heavy lifting, his Cabinet appear to have gone missing in action - with the honourable exception of David Lammy who just makes everything 10 times worse every time he opens his gob.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I think it’s fair that someone so high profile would be in a hospitality box. More than fair, vital really.

But when austerity hits, the first thing ordinary folk give up is luxuries like season tickets and entertainment.

Perhaps he could watch the game at home instead?

Are you suggesting he gets a dodgy firestick?

 

[BadFish]

“A 78th minute substitution for the whataboutary tag-team. Player off, Thunderbolt. Player on, BadFish.”

My post was specifically about the notion that 'they are all as bad as each other!'. It is challenging to make that point with mentioning the other lot.

It is right there in the first hashtag but I guess I should have quoted some posts to make it easier for you to understand.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I did a bit more reading about the pension heating allowance.

I didn’t realise quite how fine the line is between those eligible and those who will simply not get it.

While in principal I think means testing for the allowance is a good idea, I didn’t appreciate quite how many people will struggle.

And for our PM to be living quite the high life, gratis? It’s not good at all.

Last week I heard a lady in her 70's talking about her life with her husband. They each have a heart condition and he is very incontinent. They never leave their home and he a recurring cycle of washing. If they use the tumble dryer, it's expensive. If they drape the washing over the radiators which they need anyway to keep warm, they have to use dehumidifiers to stop the house getting damp. They are trapped in a financial and poor health moneypit and the loss of the WFA left her tearful and wondering how they will manage. Not ashamed to say my eyes were moist as I listened. I know that I and many others don't need it, but taking it away from the needy like that is brutally cruel. The social cost of sorting the wheat from the chaff is not worth the modest financial saving.

 

[Bry Nylon]

It is right there in the first hashtag but I guess I should have quoted some posts to make it easier for you to understand.

Maybe pop back and have another try later.

 

[BadFish]

Last week I heard a lady in her 70's talking about her life with her husband. They each have a heart condition and he is very incontinent. They never leave their home and he a recurring cycle of washing. If they use the tumble dryer, it's expensive. If they drape the washing over the radiators which they need anyway to keep warm, they have to use dehumidifiers to stop the house getting damp. They are trapped in a financial and poor health moneypit and the loss of the WFA left her tearful and wondering how they will manage. Not ashamed to say my eyes were moist as I listened. I know that I and many others don't need it, but taking it away from the needy like that is brutally cruel. The social cost of sorting the wheat from the chaff is not worth the modest financial saving.

And these guys won't get the allowance? That is awful, clearly the threshold needs to be looked at.

It brings into question what processes and algorhyths are used to arrive at the threshold figure.

 

[Bozza]

When this story broke I did give lots of examples of how tight that threshold is and received a lot of pushback about how “well, we don’t need it so I don’t care”. The replies were blindingly partisan from Labour supporters.

Labour could’ve said “we propose to cut off the head of every 5th Labour Party member to save on woolly hat manufacturing costs” and the usual cabal on here would’ve defended it.

A lot of people showed themselves to be very selfish and ill-informed about the gravity of the WFA decision.

It will directly cause thousands of deaths.

This is what I’m angry about, not Starmer taking freebies or clothes for his wife, which as I said I don’t personally give a shit about.

Last week I heard a lady in her 70's talking about her life with her husband. They each have a heart condition and he is very incontinent. They never leave their home and he a recurring cycle of washing. If they use the tumble dryer, it's expensive. If they drape the washing over the radiators which they need anyway to keep warm, they have to use dehumidifiers to stop the house getting damp. They are trapped in a financial and poor health moneypit and the loss of the WFA left her tearful and wondering how they will manage. Not ashamed to say my eyes were moist as I listened. I know that I and many others don't need it, but taking it away from the needy like that is brutally cruel. The social cost of sorting the wheat from the chaff is not worth the modest financial saving.

I share your respective anger and sadness at the wholesale withdrawal of the Winter Fuel Payment. It just doesn't make sense. I can only assume, having heavily criticised the Tories for numerous embarrassing policy U-turns, Starmer just felt he couldn't do the same so early in his tenure. He needed to look strong in the face of considerable pressure to relent.

I've had the below reply (indented) sitting in my draft replies to this thread from earlier in the day.

We could focus on hundreds of thousands of society’s poorest and most vulnerable being deprived of money that is essential to keep them warm through the winter months if you’d rather.​

​

How some Labour MPs were reported to be in tears as they were pressganged into voting for something they knew was fundamentally wrong.​

​

How a newly-elected local MP, a public health official by trade, was conveniently “ill” on the day of the vote, meaning she couldn’t vote in favour of it. She knew the impact this is going to have, and couldn't put her name on it.​

​

How even the austerity-obsessed, poor-hating, mate-enriching Tories managed to continue making this payment, a vital lifeline for many.​

​

​

 

[hart's shirt]

"Take the freebies. And Keir has. The Arsenal tickets. The Taylor Swift tickets. The suits. The designer glasses. The clothes for his wife. Starmer’s big shtick was that he was going to do politics differently. The antidote to Tory corruption and scandal. A man who could be trusted. He was one of us. So why put himself in a position where you can so easily be criticised by the rightwing press?

If you want to set yourself up as a model of propriety then you can’t start making exceptions. Especially not so early on. A couple of years in and people may not notice so much. You have to be above reproach. Yes, it might be a loss not to go to the football. And you might resent having to buy a few more suits for yourself. But that all rather goes with the job. Being prime minister may be a career highlight for a politician but you have to take the downsides."

- John Crace
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...g-labour-keir-starmer-look-like-the-tories-20

 

[The Clamp]

"Take the freebies. And Keir has. The Arsenal tickets. The Taylor Swift tickets. The suits. The designer glasses. The clothes for his wife. Starmer’s big shtick was that he was going to do politics differently. The antidote to Tory corruption and scandal. A man who could be trusted. He was one of us. So why put himself in a position where you can so easily be criticised by the rightwing press?

If you want to set yourself up as a model of propriety then you can’t start making exceptions. Especially not so early on. A couple of years in and people may not notice so much. You have to be above reproach. Yes, it might be a loss not to go to the football. And you might resent having to buy a few more suits for yourself. But that all rather goes with the job. Being prime minister may be a career highlight for a politician but you have to take the downsides."

- John Crace
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...g-labour-keir-starmer-look-like-the-tories-20

Over £16k worth of work clothes gifted to him!

 

[Peteinblack]

Condemnation of Starmer's gift-accepting, in the Grauniad letters' page today.

Keir Starmer’s hypocrisy over gifts can’t be dressed up | Letters

Letters: Readers respond to the news that the prime minister has accepted money from a party donor to buy spectacles and clothes for him and his wife

www.theguardian.com

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Here is the list of goodies Starmer The Charmer has received.

BHAFC get a mention, which is nice.

Plus a couple of payments he’s returned for various reasons. Like his book advance.

https://members.parliament.uk/member/4514/registeredinterests

He was a guest in the boardroom at Brighton. He does the right thing, which is to declare this with the notional value, and it used as a stick to beat him with.

Do other countries piss their pants over a leader going to an event like this? Or is it just the British?

 

[Guinness Boy]

As for Starmer’s freebies, I understand he’s declared them etc and technically he’s done nothing wrong but read the room, man!

The cuts to pensioner’s heating allowance, more cuts to come, nurses using food banks etc.

Whomever’s fault this is, Tory’s overspending etc, it looks absolutely terrible. And for luxury items too. Designer spectacles and tickets to football matches.

I am giving Labour the benefit of the doubt and they definitely need time to get the economy under control but these freebies aren’t doing them any favours.

The freebies thing goes on in almost any corporate job.

In my previous job my boss and I were given free tickets to a conference in Munich, because we’d sponsored a similar event in London. I’ll be honest, we did quite a lot of drinking and not much work.

In my current job I have a range of free polo shirts with our corporate logo on, notebooks and phone dongles with the same and a company backpack. I don’t need any of them but they help promote our brand.

I’ve been a guest in 1901 of my mate’s company three times (though I prefer my WSU seat or an away end) and may be taking a client of mine in the future as they know the Van Hecke family. And SKS has only been moved at Arsenal for his own protection. Seems ok to me given some of the paranoid rubbish on Twitter. I certainly wouldn’t want to be kicked out of my seat so it could be used by a protection officer either.

What I’ve never had free, however, is a complete refurb of my house or a helicopter.

 

[Chicken Run]

He was a guest in the boardroom at Brighton. He does the right thing, which is to declare this with the notional value, and it used as a stick to beat him with.

Do other countries piss their pants over a leader going to an event like this? Or is it just the British?

Genuine question HT, and answering Yes or No, if this was Cameron in 2010 a few weeks after being elected accepting these gifts would you believe this to be acceptable behaviour and the British Public are overreacting, Yes or No?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Genuine question HT, and answering Yes or No, if this was Cameron in 2010 a few weeks after being elected accepting these gifts would you believe this to be acceptable behaviour and the British Public are overreacting, Yes or No?

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

Greensill. The above article can be read for free

 

[JetsetJimbo]

The UK has a piece of secondary legislation called "The Pensions Increase (Pension Scheme for Keir Starmer QC) Regulations 2013" that exempts him, and only him, from being taxed on his pension savings after the first £1 million.

Worth remembering, I think, when the reports of pensioners freezing to death in their homes start rolling in this winter.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Genuine question HT, and answering Yes or No, if this was Cameron in 2010 a few weeks after being elected accepting these gifts would you believe this to be acceptable behaviour and the British Public are overreacting, Yes or No?

I don’t have an issue with “everyday” stuff like this. I have been the recipient of free gig tickets and gig hospitality and free fancy class flights myself purely because I know people in the respective industries. As with most things, there’s a line to be drawn, and as an example I wasn’t comfortable with Boris and that huge loan he secured. The very nature of that arrangement does make you start doubting their integrity and whether it’s influencing decisions. Suits, glasses and boardroom at the Albion no.

I have always said, and posted this on here, that I don’t have an issue with privilege (or wealth) per se, it’s how people are and what people do with privilege which is my concern.

How long until someone posts a quote from me in 2010 lambasting Cameron for a freebie

 

[Chicken Run]

I don’t have an issue with “everyday” stuff like this. I have been the recipient of free gig tickets and gig hospitality and free fancy class flights myself purely because I know people in the respective industries. As with most things, there’s a line to be drawn, and as an example I wasn’t comfortable with Boris and that huge loan he secured. The very nature of that arrangement does make you start doubting their integrity and whether it’s influencing decisions. Suits, glasses and boardroom at the Albion no.

I have always said, and posted this on here, that I don’t have an issue with privilege (or wealth) per se, it’s how people are and what people do with privilege which is my concern.

How long until someone posts a quote from me in 2010 lambasting Cameron for a freebie

Incoming

 

[Chicken Run]

I don’t have an issue with “everyday” stuff like this. I have been the recipient of free gig tickets and gig hospitality and free fancy class flights myself purely because I know people in the respective industries. As with most things, there’s a line to be drawn, and as an example I wasn’t comfortable with Boris and that huge loan he secured. The very nature of that arrangement does make you start doubting their integrity and whether it’s influencing decisions. Suits, glasses and boardroom at the Albion no.

I have always said, and posted this on here, that I don’t have an issue with privilege (or wealth) per se, it’s how people are and what people do with privilege which is my concern.

How long until someone posts a quote from me in 2010 lambasting Cameron for a freebie

But back to my original question Y or N ?