[Politics] The Labour Government

[BevBHA]

I am a pensioner and many of my friends are similar age; all received the payment and all feel that it is important to accept that we can do without it in these times of dire need. No one felt her/his health or safety was being compromised. I accept that a means tested approach is essential to ensure that vulnerable older people are not excluded but in principle I believe this is the right move, as I say, in these extremely difficult times.

What have you got to countermand that comment? I am keen to hear from you.....

Not the person you’re replying to but someone who has shared that poster’s sentiments, the key is the means testing bit. I think it’s very simple, it needs to be means tested OR the cap needs to be raised from the frankly paltry £11k cut off to make up the difference.

For some it’s unneeded, for others it’s life and death and shouldn’t be handled as a blanket cut, when ironically blankets are likely to be needed more than ever.

Thanks for the replies I enjoy the discussion. For me I don’t see why it has to be such a hard line of £11k? Why can’t it be £11k and under is the full funding and then it dilutes gradually up to an annual income of say, £20k? Similar I suppose to a students maintenance loan along side their course fees. These are means tested and how much you are granted is entirely based on each individuals personal and families circumstance.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Last Tuesday. It will still be paid to pensioners on some form of benefits, but not universally.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2024/07/eligibility-changes-winter-fuel-payment/

Sorry I thought you were talking about the fuel payment. No, bus passes are not being taken away. That was made up by the poster.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Thanks for the replies I enjoy the discussion. For me I don’t see why it has to be such a hard line of £11k? Why can’t it be £11k and under is the full funding and then it dilutes gradually up to an annual income of say, £20k? Similar I suppose to a students maintenance loan along side their course fees. These are means tested and how much you are granted is entirely based on each individuals personal and families circumstance.

I accept what you’re saying but how many staff would need to be employed just to handle the calibration?

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Sorry I thought you were talking about the fuel payment. No, bus passes are not being taken away. That was made up by the poster.

Not yet

I'm not sure Granny Killer Reeves would get away with that one.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Not yet

I'm not sure Granny Killer Reeves would get away with that one.

Three of my Granny friends have gone in the last few months anyway, without waiting for winter.

 

[chickens]

Thanks for the replies I enjoy the discussion. For me I don’t see why it has to be such a hard line of £11k? Why can’t it be £11k and under is the full funding and then it dilutes gradually up to an annual income of say, £20k? Similar I suppose to a students maintenance loan along side their course fees. These are means tested and how much you are granted is entirely based on each individuals personal and families circumstance.

Again, I’m not the person you’re responding to, so apologies for jumping in. The reasoning for doing things this way, is that Pension Credit is a means tested benefit already paid to pensioners, there are already staff in place to check these claims, and that they meet conditionality. We already know who’s eligible.

That doesn’t mean we couldn’t introduce changes to Pension Credit eligibility so there was tapered eligibility to it, but what we don’t want to do is end up with multiple sets of eligibility criteria and having to employ multiple teams on separate IT systems, not talking to each other, all working out slightly different criteria. It gets expensive really quickly.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Again, I’m not the person you’re responding to, so apologies for jumping in. The reasoning for doing things this way, is that Pension Credit is a means tested benefit already paid to pensioners, there are already staff in place to check these claims, and that they meet conditionality. We already know who’s eligible.

That doesn’t mean we couldn’t introduce changes to Pension Credit eligibility so there was tapered eligibility to it, but what we don’t want to do is end up with multiple sets of eligibility criteria and having to employ multiple teams on separate IT systems, not talking to each other, all working out slightly different criteria. It gets expensive really quickly.

Between the devil and the deep blue sea. On the one hand, even a tapered system is expensive; on the other hand, a non-tapered system is unfair.

Someone who is a pound or two under the limit gets pension credit, along with other benefits (as detailed on the government help sheet attached) of:

Housing Benefit if you rent the property you live in
Cost of Living Payments
Support for Mortgage Interest if you own the property you live in
a Council Tax discount
a free TV licence if you’re aged 75 or over
help with NHS dental treatment, glasses and transport costs for hospital appointments, if you get a certain type of Pension Credit
help with your heating costs through the Warm Home Discount Scheme
a discount on the Royal Mail redirection service if you’re moving house

and now a £300 heating bonus. Someone who gets perhaps a fiver a week more (or even less of a difference than that) gets none of the above. And no, I don't know what the answer is!

Pension Credit

Pension Credit is extra money for pensioners to bring your weekly income up to a minimum amount - what you'll get, apply, eligibility.

www.gov.uk

 

[chickens]

Between the devil and the deep blue sea. On the one hand, even a tapered system is expensive; on the other hand, a non-tapered system is unfair.

Someone who is a pound or two under the limit gets pension credit, along with other benefits (as detailed on the government help sheet attached) of:

Housing Benefit if you rent the property you live in
Cost of Living Payments
Support for Mortgage Interest if you own the property you live in
a Council Tax discount
a free TV licence if you’re aged 75 or over
help with NHS dental treatment, glasses and transport costs for hospital appointments, if you get a certain type of Pension Credit
help with your heating costs through the Warm Home Discount Scheme
a discount on the Royal Mail redirection service if you’re moving house

and now a £300 heating bonus. Someone who gets perhaps a fiver a week more (or even less of a difference than that) gets none of the above. And no, I don't know what the answer is!

Pension Credit

Pension Credit is extra money for pensioners to bring your weekly income up to a minimum amount - what you'll get, apply, eligibility.

www.gov.uk

I agree, an arbitrary boundary seems unfair to those who may be pennies over, but there would be significant expense in moving to a tiered system.

Nothing’s ever perfect.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Not the person you’re replying to but someone who has shared that poster’s sentiments, the key is the means testing bit. I think it’s very simple, it needs to be means tested OR the cap needs to be raised from the frankly paltry £11k cut off to make up the difference.

For some it’s unneeded, for others it’s life and death and shouldn’t be handled as a blanket cut, when ironically blankets are likely to be needed more than ever.

It.
Is.
Going.
To.
Be.
Means.
Tested.

 

[jcdenton08]

I don’t know why they don’t just means test it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Between the devil and the deep blue sea. On the one hand, even a tapered system is expensive; on the other hand, a non-tapered system is unfair.

Someone who is a pound or two under the limit gets pension credit, along with other benefits (as detailed on the government help sheet attached) of:

Housing Benefit if you rent the property you live in
Cost of Living Payments
Support for Mortgage Interest if you own the property you live in
a Council Tax discount
a free TV licence if you’re aged 75 or over
help with NHS dental treatment, glasses and transport costs for hospital appointments, if you get a certain type of Pension Credit
help with your heating costs through the Warm Home Discount Scheme
a discount on the Royal Mail redirection service if you’re moving house

and now a £300 heating bonus. Someone who gets perhaps a fiver a week more (or even less of a difference than that) gets none of the above. And no, I don't know what the answer is!

Pension Credit

Pension Credit is extra money for pensioners to bring your weekly income up to a minimum amount - what you'll get, apply, eligibility.

www.gov.uk

Probably cheaper to not introduce means testing. If it is introduced, as you note, a graduated reduction (or increase - depends which way you look at it) would be most fair.

I recall many years ago it being said that it is cheaper to have universal credit than to means test it.

Same argument goes for flat rate tax (%). Calling @Weststander.

Perhaps curation systems could be implemented more cheaply now with all the data and tech we now have.

One thing that is surely unfair is means testing based on assets, effectively forcing people to sell their property. This is what happens when you go into an old peoples' home. My great aunt spent the last year of her life in misery in a care home on the Old Shoreham Road, where the goons lost her false teeth and didn't replace them, talked down to her, and eat up most of the money she had saved during a lifetime of work. She died before Covid, which was probably a blessing.

 

[Bodian]

Perhaps one that doesn’t compromise people’s health or safety, would be a start

Which policies/strategy that Labour have brought in are doing that?

 

[BadFish]

I've been on holiday, when was this announced?

People are rioting up and down the country because of it, surely that news spread to where you were?

 

[BadFish]

That would be a better argument if the Tories didn't also put into practice higher taxes and letting out the prisoners. And it's the pensioners' heating allowance that's gone, not the bus passes. The only one you have the right of, is the junior doctors' pay, which I agree is not going to help either the economy or the health service - as soon as the junior doctors get what they will (one hopes) accept, then the GPs are out.

The heating allowance is now means tested isn't it?

 

[dsr-burnley]

The heating allowance is now means tested isn't it?

Yes. As it stands, about 1 in 8 pensioners will get it.

 

[Weststander]

Yes. As it stands, about 1 in 8 pensioners will get it.

Sky report that. But:

12.6m OAP’s.
> 3m are entitled to pension credit.

1 in 4.

 

[Seaview Seagull]

Sky report that. But:

12.6m OAP’s.
> 3m are entitled to pension credit.

1 in 4.

The key there is "entitled". Many don't realise they are entitled so don't claim pension credit so won't get the heating allowance. It needs publicity to encourage claims from those who should get it but don't.

 

[Weststander]

The key there is "entitled". Many don't realise they are entitled so don't claim pension credit so won't get the heating allowance. It needs publicity to encourage claims from those who should get it but don't.

2.2m claim pension credit.

1/8th of 12.6m is 1.575m.

Wondering if the media stirred with the dramatic 1 in 8?

(Labour now need to educate the other 800,000 to claim).

 

[dsr-burnley]

2.2m claim pension credit.

1/8th of 12.6m is 1.575m.

Wondering if the media stirred with the dramatic 1 in 8?

(Labour now need to educate the other 800,000 to claim).

Nobody stirred anything. I did a qucik google and found a figure of 1.4m claiming pension credit. If it should have been 2.2m then it's 1 in 6 pensioners who will get it. Approximately.

 

[Weststander]

Nobody stirred anything. I did a qucik google and found a figure of 1.4m claiming pension credit. If it should have been 2.2m then it's 1 in 6 pensioners who will get it. Approximately.