[Albion] The injustice against Liverpool

[Icy Gull]

"Liverpool ask PGMOL for VAR audio from Luis Diaz disallowed goal"

Not backing down yet

Copy and pasted from another site posted by a Liverpool fan, assume it’s genuine. Liverpool are not taking this lying down, which we did after Spurs


Liverpool Football Club acknowledges PGMOL’s admission of their failures last night. It is clear that the correct application of the laws of the game did not occur, resulting in sporting integrity being undermined.

We fully accept the pressures that match officials work under but these pressures are supposed to be alleviated, not exacerbated, by the existence and implementation of VAR.

It is therefore unsatisfactory that sufficient time was not afforded to allow the correct decision to be made and that there was no subsequent intervention.

That such failings have already been categorised as “significant human error” is also unacceptable. Any and all outcomes should be established only by the review and with full transparency.

This is vital for the reliability of future decision-making as it applies to all clubs with learnings being used to make improvements to processes in order to ensure this kind of situation cannot occur again.

In the meantime, we will explore the range of options available, given the clear need for escalation and resolution.

 

[mile oak]

Now imagine this all happens last game of the season and a team is denied PL survival or a place in Europe etc - what then? I know for sure what will happen a legal battle and complete farcical mess opens up with clubs claiming this that and the other and the courts trying to decide the football outcome not the beautiful game. My personal take is scrap VAR completely go back to human refs. Yes they can make mistakes that's what being human is. If we did though I suspect the TV companies will become the (unofficial) VAR. As others have said my fear is even unconsciously the officials will wanna see things more Red than Blue Sunday.

 

[mile oak]

No point celebrating goals anymore. None
Until the opposition kick off.
Absolute farce!

This is what spoils the game for me when I watch a non VAR game live it feels so different its always (with VAR) celebrate because you naturally want to then there is that look for lino flag, look see if VAR "possible offside/handball") comes up on screen etc.

 

[METALMICKY]

Oh please just feck off Liverpool now! What is obtaining the audio going to achieve? We've already concluded it's an horrendous error. Us little clubs after horrendous decisions have to make do with a worthless apology and suck it up.

 

[dazzer6666]

Oh please just feck off Liverpool now! What is obtaining the audio going to achieve? We've already concluded it's an horrendous error. Us little clubs after horrendous decisions have to make do with a worthless apology and suck it up.

Agreed. All the audio will confirm is that the officials were useless and got it horribly wrong (maybe Liverpool think there's a genuine conspiracy or something ). What we need is a very urgent review of how VAR is used to avoid crap like this happening so often. Webb should be fired if this isn't done, or anything similar happens again.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Maybe he did it against Wales too but the big Henry handball was against Ireland I think - denying them qualification to finals of WC/Euros(can’t recall which) - I think anyway

Yep. My point however....

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Don't think that was the same, was it?

What I'm saying here is once a VAR check is complete and play resumes, it can't be restarted.

No, but I wonder what would have happened had he stopped the game and explained to the 2 captains and managers that there had been a serious but accidental miscommunication, and suggested that Spurs allow a Liverpool player to score unopposed? I bet he, and certainly Tottenham/Ange, would have been seen as behaving incredibly impressively, regardless of it not being in the laws of the game.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Using on-field Refs to man the VAR as well is wrong. Two different skillsets to officiating live vs reviewing video evidence. Separate the roles completely. Let the on-field refs master the art of being on on-field ref, and have a completely separate pool of specifically trained VAR refs to man the video side.

Beyond that, they need a lot more transparency (both while the VAR decision is being made, and afterwards). They also need more help from available technology (where it has been proven). The Premier League not bringing in the semi-automated offside tech reminds me a lot of India refusing automation for LBW decisions for a few years. It wasn't until they themselves were on the receiving end of some absolute howlers that the automated LBW system would have prevented that they accepted it.

I'd also suggest that rather than VAR being the driving force on whether or not it gets used, hand it over to the Managers on the touchline. Give them, say, 2 or 3 challenges per half. If they use a challenge and the VAR finds in their favour, they keep the challenge. If the VAR finds the original decision correct, the challenge is lost. We'll suddenly see VAR only being used when either the Managers are certain a howler has taken place, or when they are utterly desperate and are hoping that a howler has happened.

Finally ... there is a desperate need for some genuine, real, accountability at referee level. Both on-field and VAR. PGMOL needs to be tracking the performance of individual refs over time. They need to be rewarding consistently high performing refs, and dealing with underperforming refs. In particular, they need to be monitoring the data on referee performances to root out any possibility of referees who are showing consistent bias (whether deliberate or unconscious).

Almost exactly the same as what I said. And I agree with all the rest.

 

[Bodian]

No, but I wonder what would have happened had he stopped the game and explained to the 2 captains and managers that there had been a serious but accidental miscommunication, and suggested that Spurs allow a Liverpool player to score unopposed? I bet he, and certainly Tottenham/Ange, would have been seen as behaving incredibly impressively, regardless of it not being in the laws of the game.

It's not prohibited under the laws of the game though. Would have been brilliantly received.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Agreed. All the audio will confirm is that the officials were useless and got it horribly wrong (maybe Liverpool think there's a genuine conspiracy or something ). What we need is a very urgent review of how VAR is used to avoid crap like this happening so often. Webb should be fired if this isn't done, or anything similar happens again.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist generally. Having worked in and around government I can say no one is that smart to play 4D chess and that the simplest and most obvious theory is normally the correct answer which is usually incompetence by thick chancers. I think that is the case here but ..

Darren England and Dan Cook had made a six-hour flight from the United Arab Emirates the day before the Liverpool game, after taking charge of a league game between Al Ain and Sharjah in the UAE Pro League on Thursday night. Imagine if they had playing Man City instead of Spurs? Given Man City are owned by the vice president of UAE, it's surely not right that referees are going out there. It's not a huge leap of faith to think they will be in 5 star hotels, large match fees and 1st class flights. Bias towards city could go a long way. Now, I'm not saying Saturday was bent or whatever but I can imagine a lot of people would think so if you swap Spurs and City as teams around and the circumstances of the decisions.

Personally I think we should pay refs more, try to discourage the abuse, stop them from going to states that own our clubs to ref games for a few quid and try to raise the standard somehow. TV money is off the scale. Invest some back in.

 

[pb21]

Agreed. All the audio will confirm is that the officials were useless and got it horribly wrong (maybe Liverpool think there's a genuine conspiracy or something ). What we need is a very urgent review of how VAR is used to avoid crap like this happening so often. Webb should be fired if this isn't done, or anything similar happens again.

To do that review and for clubs to have confidence the review will work is for clubs to understand what the issue actually was, not simply human error, i.e the audio should be released.

Considering the PGMOL have done this several times before, and for controversial decisions, it would be quite telling if they refused in this case. It's not an unreasonable request IMO.

 

[dazzer6666]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist generally. Having worked in and around government I can say no one is that smart to play 4D chess and that the simplest and most obvious theory is normally the correct answer which is usually incompetence by thick chancers. I think that is the case here but ..

Darren England and Dan Cook had made a six-hour flight from the United Arab Emirates the day before the Liverpool game, after taking charge of a league game between Al Ain and Sharjah in the UAE Pro League on Thursday night. Imagine if they had playing Man City instead of Spurs? Given Man City are owned by the vice president of UAE, it's surely not right that referees are going out there. It's not a huge leap of faith to think they will be in 5 star hotels, large match fees and 1st class flights. Bias towards city could go a long way. Now, I'm not saying Saturday was bent or whatever but I can imagine a lot of people would think so if you swap Spurs and City as teams around and the circumstances of the decisions.

Personally I think we should pay refs more, try to discourage the abuse, stop them from going to states that own our clubs to ref games for a few quid and try to raise the standard somehow. TV money is off the scale. Invest some back in.

Refs are travelling all over the place - including European games etc - even without the potential issues you raise, there’s no way they should basically be getting off a flight and doing another game the next day. Anyone doing that is likely to make a balls-up at work through tiredness (I know from experience )

 

[Doonhamer7]

Surprised they haven't had a 2 minute silence and candle lit vigil on Merseyside yet.

Maybe they'll do it tonight.

Have you been living in a cave for the last 30years. Hillsborough could have happened to any club, similar issue nearly happened the previous semi at Leppings Lane end

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Almost exactly the same as what I said. And I agree with all the rest.

Yeah, it’s been said many times. Get some smart techie kids with an anorak-ish knowledge of the game and the laws, in front of the screens with a couple of referees alongside them to advise and validate, and to request particular views. Much more likely to produce faster, better results.

 

[Seagull58]

Maybe he did it against Wales too but the big Henry handball was against Ireland I think - denying them qualification to finals of WC/Euros(can’t recall which) - I think anyway

Henry was against Ireland. Joe Jordan was against Wales.

 

[Seagull58]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist generally. Having worked in and around government I can say no one is that smart to play 4D chess and that the simplest and most obvious theory is normally the correct answer which is usually incompetence by thick chancers. I think that is the case here but ..

Darren England and Dan Cook had made a six-hour flight from the United Arab Emirates the day before the Liverpool game, after taking charge of a league game between Al Ain and Sharjah in the UAE Pro League on Thursday night. Imagine if they had playing Man City instead of Spurs? Given Man City are owned by the vice president of UAE, it's surely not right that referees are going out there. It's not a huge leap of faith to think they will be in 5 star hotels, large match fees and 1st class flights. Bias towards city could go a long way. Now, I'm not saying Saturday was bent or whatever but I can imagine a lot of people would think so if you swap Spurs and City as teams around and the circumstances of the decisions.

Personally I think we should pay refs more, try to discourage the abuse, stop them from going to states that own our clubs to ref games for a few quid and try to raise the standard somehow. TV money is off the scale. Invest some back in.

IMO the incompetence theory breaks down wrt the Spurs v Brighton match. I mean, what are the odds of the officials getting 5 game changing decisions wrong in one match and all in favour of the same team through incompetence alone? The Palace offside where they failed to notice the other defender almost alongside the defender from whom they drew the line also stretches the level of incompetence necessary almost off the scale.

 

[Billy the Fish]

So here is the first of the posts that draw on the idea that scousers go on and on about Hillsborough. Only just spotted it. Very funny. I suppose of someone kills one of your family that would also be hilarious.

WTF has what I said got to do with Hillsborough?

You can't make a joke about Liverpool fans without someone linking it back to Hillsborough. Are they never allowed to be made fun of?

 

[Billy the Fish]

Have you been living in a cave for the last 30years. Hillsborough could have happened to any club, similar issue nearly happened the previous semi at Leppings Lane end

Another WTF

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

WTF has what I said got to do with Hillsborough?

You can't make a joke about Liverpool fans without someone linking it back to Hillsborough. Are they never allowed to be made fun of?

Please put this into a context I can understand: "Surprised they haven't had a 2 minute silence and candle lit vigil on Merseyside yet."

What do Liverpool supporters have a candle-lit vigil about if not Hillsborough?

You sound like Das Reich, extolling the virtues of Robinson's jam. Golly.

Good old bantz

 

[Guinness Boy]

WTF has what I said got to do with Hillsborough?

You can't make a joke about Liverpool fans without someone linking it back to Hillsborough. Are they never allowed to be made fun of?

This. Everyone reporting or claiming offence at this post seems to have a link to Liverpool. Either they watch Liverpool games on telly with a Scouser, support Brighton AND Liverpool or live in the edgy, inner city nightmare that is Cheshire.