[Cricket] The Hundred

[Berty23]

I wish people would stop saying the crowds at county championship are low and only retired people so it needs to change to attract the crowd. What world do people live in? First class cricket is an all day event. For people who work or have childcare responsibilities it is a non-starter. It doesn’t matter how it is structured it will still only be retired people who can commit to a whole season. And do we think retired people are likely to travel vast distances to watch it? How many do we think will travel from Taunton to Cardiff? What about Hove to Southampton. Where on earth is this new crowd coming from?

I don’t understand why a reduced number and no relegation will improve standards. Can anyone explain? Once a team is out of the title race then they will simply focus elsewhere without the spectre of relegation over them. It will lead to matches later in the season that just don’t matter for some of the teams involved. With relegation it ensures that very few matches don’t matter.

I grew up in south Devon. It was already an hour for me to Taunton. Going any further would be a nonstarter.

People also forget the counties produce the players. What will happen to young local talent? How will they be brought through without county oversight of development when the counties won’t benefit from producing them?

I don’t think people have really thought this through.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I wish people would stop saying the crowds at county championship are low and only retired people so it needs to change to attract the crowd. What world do people live in? First class cricket is an all day event. For people who work or have childcare responsibilities it is a non-starter. It doesn’t matter how it is structured it will still only be retired people who can commit to a whole season. And do we think retired people are likely to travel vast distances to watch it? How many do we think will travel from Taunton to Cardiff? What about Hove to Southampton. Where on earth is this new crowd coming from?

I don’t understand why a reduced number and no relegation will improve standards. Can anyone explain? Once a team is out of the title race then they will simply focus elsewhere without the spectre of relegation over them. It will lead to matches later in the season that just don’t matter for some of the teams involved. With relegation it ensures that very few matches don’t matter.

I grew up in south Devon. It was already an hour for me to Taunton. Going any further would be a nonstarter.

People also forget the counties produce the players. What will happen to young local talent? How will they be brought through without county oversight of development when the counties won’t benefit from producing them?

I don’t think people have really thought this through.

I always hear this argument about relegation, why is the 18 team County Championship ALWAYS a closed shop then if relegation is so important? Why can't the minor counties be promoted into the County Championship proper, or even League club sides for that matter? 2 leagues, 3 leagues, what was it last year, 3 groups into then 3 divisions, I bet most people didn't even know, or who won it.

 

[keaton]

I'd be surprised if more than handful of people could remember who won the Hundred

 

[Berty23]

I always hear this argument about relegation, why is the 18 team County Championship ALWAYS a closed shop then if relegation is so important? Why can't the minor counties be promoted into the County Championship proper, or even League club sides for that matter? 2 leagues, 3 leagues, what was it last year, 3 groups into then 3 divisions, I bet most people didn't even know, or who won it.

Because to run a first class county you need significant infrastructure in place. If a minor county wants to join then they can make an argument for that. It has been done in the case of Durham. There are usually about three counties with little to play for in the last round of matches in division 2.

The last two years were due to covid. Going back to the two division structure that saw us get to top of the world. Hopefully the hundred gets scrapped so we can have a proper 50 over tournament which saw us get to world champions. After we won an early t20 World Cup on the back of our domestic league.

I have absolutely no idea who won the hundred. I would bet good money that more people could name the winners of the county championship than the hundred.

 

[Pondicherry]

Isn't the problem here as simple as domestically, short form cricket is much more popular and profitable than long form cricket. So short form cricket will always get priority (at county and player level). So standards will fall at test level and it will cease at some point?

 

[Gwylan]

Isn't the problem here as simple as domestically, short form cricket is much more popular and profitable than long form cricket.

Not quite. Test match cricket is the big earner in this country and The Hundred makes big losses - much subsidised by test matches.

For counties, it's the other way round, the Blast subsidises the CC. I'm a bit baffled as to why there's been no fiddling with the CC format: why no day night matches? Why no single match tickets or mini-season tickets? Why no reduced prices after 2.00 say? Why no attempts to speed up over rate (it's telling that the highest score made in a single day - 721 - came off 129 overs in six hours. Why do teams struggle to bowl 90 in seven?)? I'm sure there many more suggestions that could be made but nothing has been done to the CC format.

 

[Hamilton]

Not quite. Test match cricket is the big earner in this country and The Hundred makes big losses - much subsidised by test matches.

For counties, it's the other way round, the Blast subsidises the CC. I'm a bit baffled as to why there's been no fiddling with the CC format: why no day night matches? Why no single match tickets or mini-season tickets? Why no reduced prices after 2.00 say? Why no attempts to speed up over rate (it's telling that the highest score made in a single day - 721 - came off 129 overs in six hours. Why do teams struggle to bowl 90 in seven?)? I'm sure there many more suggestions that could be made but nothing has been done to the CC format.

This with bells on. Great post.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Not quite. Test match cricket is the big earner in this country and The Hundred makes big losses - much subsidised by test matches.

For counties, it's the other way round, the Blast subsidises the CC. I'm a bit baffled as to why there's been no fiddling with the CC format: why no day night matches? Why no single match tickets or mini-season tickets? Why no reduced prices after 2.00 say? Why no attempts to speed up over rate (it's telling that the highest score made in a single day - 721 - came off 129 overs in six hours. Why do teams struggle to bowl 90 in seven?)? I'm sure there many more suggestions that could be made but nothing has been done to the CC format.

Six!

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

People have always and always will pay to watch high class sport. Make a spectacle out of county cricket, create a buzz around it, love what you have rather than always trying to create something different, people will come back.

To me, it's like Tory councils closing a library and saying well people aren't using it. Well yes, they aren't using it, because you've cut back the opening hours and not allowed them to buy a book in 4 years

 

[Bold Seagull]

Not quite. Test match cricket is the big earner in this country and The Hundred makes big losses - much subsidised by test matches.

For counties, it's the other way round, the Blast subsidises the CC. I'm a bit baffled as to why there's been no fiddling with the CC format: why no day night matches? Why no single match tickets or mini-season tickets? Why no reduced prices after 2.00 say? Why no attempts to speed up over rate (it's telling that the highest score made in a single day - 721 - came off 129 overs in six hours. Why do teams struggle to bowl 90 in seven?)? I'm sure there many more suggestions that could be made but nothing has been done to the CC format.

I think the reason being, and what HairPiece is alluding to, is that it takes all 18 counties to agree to these changes, and scheduling and whatnot. It is a cumbersome structure for instigating any kind of change because all 18 want to look after their own slice of cake.

Test match cricket is the big earner - absolutely bang on. However, no one is looking after it at county level. As long as they sell their Blast tickets - they're happy.

 

[Gwylan]

I think the reason being, and what HairPiece is alluding to, is that it takes all 18 counties to agree to these changes, and scheduling and whatnot. It is a cumbersome structure for instigating any kind of change because all 18 want to look after their own slice of cake.

Counties can certainly change the pricing structure on their volition - they don't need all to agree to that. I'm not sure about day/night but, AFAIK, it's never been discussed. And yes, penalties for over-rates need to be agree by all but I'd like to know which counties would object. At least, we'd know the counties who want to short-change the paying public

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Isn't the problem here as simple as domestically, short form cricket is much more popular and profitable than long form cricket. So short form cricket will always get priority (at county and player level). So standards will fall at test level and it will cease at some point?

In short yes. Unless someone does something a bit radical to the game.

 

[Berty23]

Other countries have a far better supported short form league than first class too.

I agree with the points of others. Test cricket is the big earner. It is what matters the most to cricket fans. What happens if first class cricket dies? Would we just get even more limited over stuff? People will get bored very quickly. It would just be loads of games that become instantly forgettable. Again as others have said. Test cricket is what brings the revenue so how would cricket survive based only on money losing events like the hundred? It couldn’t.

I would simply not engage with cricket anymore if Somerset stopped competing. It is exactly how I felt about league football if Brighton had ceased to exist 25 years ago.

People say support another club 2 hours away. So I ask anyone who says this - what would you do if Brighton ceased to exist? (Somerset very well run and produce England players unlike many small counties).

 

[fisons]

Other countries have a far better supported short form league than first class too.

I agree with the points of others. Test cricket is the big earner. It is what matters the most to cricket fans. What happens if first class cricket dies? Would we just get even more limited over stuff? People will get bored very quickly. It would just be loads of games that become instantly forgettable. Again as others have said. Test cricket is what brings the revenue so how would cricket survive based only on money losing events like the hundred? It couldn’t.

I would simply not engage with cricket anymore if Somerset stopped competing. It is exactly how I felt about league football if Brighton had ceased to exist 25 years ago.

People say support another club 2 hours away. So I ask anyone who says this - what would you do if Brighton ceased to exist? (Somerset very well run and produce England players unlike many small counties).[/QUOT

Sussex provided more players to England than the Cider Boys last year. But I agree Somerset is very well run and does produce England players.

 

[Berty23]

Is that true re Sussex.

Off the top of my head somerset produced
Leach
Bess
Buttler
Overton
Gregory
Banton

 

[Bold Seagull]

Counties can certainly change the pricing structure on their volition - they don't need all to agree to that. I'm not sure about day/night but, AFAIK, it's never been discussed. And yes, penalties for over-rates need to be agree by all but I'd like to know which counties would object. At least, we'd know the counties who want to short-change the paying public

The problem I have is that there isn't enough quality first class players across 18 teams, and hasn't been for a considerable amount of time. We can't find a half decent test spinner, our openers have no experience of facing 2 quality seam bowlers let alone 3 or 4 in a test match as it happens in so few Championship games. Because the counties aren't that bothered about the CC, they're not that bothered about a 2 division system with relegation either, it's an 'oh well, better luck next year'.

The trouble with the system is, if you do have success at the CC and you produce some Test players, they're gone for the Test matches and you're weakened as a side because you've served the Test side well. Okay, you get a bit of recompense, but it devalues the commitment to the competition in many cases.

Australia are struggling to produce high quality test players too, but at least the Sheffield Shield is an elite testing ground for them of just 6 teams, their county equivalent clubs feed players into that competition so that it becomes a competition with matches between elite level players. I think this is what the proposals seeks to look like.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

I'm sure you would, you think Sussex are going to be prioritising the CC anytime soon, seriously? What was it last season, played 15 won 1. Who even knows without looking it up?

As I keep saying, I know there is a generation that remembers when the CC meant something, Counties are like their football team, but it's a memory, it's nostalgia, they're not interested, ticket buying fans aren't interested. County members who even get into CC games for FREE aren't going in any kind of numbers.

The 18 counties aren't going to start shunting their big revenue spinning comps out the way for the CC. There is the problem.

What Sussex did last year (under incredible financial pressures and restrictions due to Covid) was play lots of up and coming young players. These are the players that will become the players in your preferred format which is Test Cricket. 10 of our 16 named player squads were under 24. Ibrahim, The Lenham brothers, Haines, Hunt are all names that will only develop from academy systems set up and paid for by Sussex CCC. Like the Albion, Sussex know to compete they have to develop and find young prospects. Garton a Brighton born fast bowler is in the England squad for the West Indies, Robinson was in the England squad for the ashes, a player given a chance again with our coaching and system.

For what I have read of the Hundred and this new proposed City Championship league it is all about money, going to agents, going to Test ground sides, going to the people that run it. It does not seem interested in devleopment of the game or young players.

It reeks of of the Europen Super League. I am sure some people want that format and to let the rest of football retract and die. So for these and many more reasons I am not in.

You are Tom Harrison and I claim my £5

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Other countries have a far better supported short form league than first class too.

I agree with the points of others. Test cricket is the big earner. It is what matters the most to cricket fans. What happens if first class cricket dies? Would we just get even more limited over stuff? People will get bored very quickly. It would just be loads of games that become instantly forgettable. Again as others have said. Test cricket is what brings the revenue so how would cricket survive based only on money losing events like the hundred? It couldn’t.

I would simply not engage with cricket anymore if Somerset stopped competing. It is exactly how I felt about league football if Brighton had ceased to exist 25 years ago.

People say support another club 2 hours away. So I ask anyone who says this - what would you do if Brighton ceased to exist? (Somerset very well run and produce England players unlike many small counties).

This isn't just Agnew, I've read these suggestions before, The Hundred was an experiment with a view to seeing whether you can run a competition outside county control.

I don't think anyone is saying Counties cease to exist - I'm not sure why you've even said that. The counties would still have the ODI cup, the T20 Blast and a reduced format County Championship giving more cricket to more players coming through. It wouldn't be the elite championship, but a 3 day format that would still be contested and enable counties to bring youngsters in who might not even get a chance of a longer format match.

Then, from that county championship the cream of the first class players compete in an elite championship competition. You would need to free them from the County contracts so that you could have say 8 teams signing the best 15 or whatever they need for their teams. These players would then be competing against like for like quality in each game raising the standards.

Meanwhile the counties carry on as they were, a reduced CC for them, most would probably welcome that anyway, and full concentration on white ball cricket.

Anyway, it's all hypothetical because it WON'T HAPPEN. because there is no way cricket will do anything radical or thinking outside the box, and we can continue to watch test cricket slowly but surely become less relevant.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Is that true re Sussex.

Off the top of my head somerset produced
Leach
Bess
Buttler
Overton
Gregory
Banton

off the top of my head

Jordan
Archer
Robinson
Salt
Garton
(plus Ibrahim and Lenham to the England U19s)

 

[Brovion]

It is indeed a ludicrous suggestion. I'd imagine he was pissed when he came up with it.

I also struggle to see any particular merit in it, when essentially (aside from refusing to play at any non-test grounds) its no better than a rebranding of the first division, no doubt bankrolled by Hundred-sized marketing and PR budget, and the help of the TV companies.

To achieve his stated aim, what is different between that, and just having a County Championship, with three six team divisions? Play each other home and away = ten games. Play those in the dry part of summer, throw your magic-money-tree marketing budget at it, show games on terrestrial TV, give away tickets to get a crowd in. It would be akin to the PL in football - a small group of Test-ground counties will dominate, hoover up the best players, and the cash, but at least the integrity of a league structure remains, and no County is disenfranchised.

Indeed, it was a moronic suggestion. A structure akin to football would be better. This will not be a popular opinion, but professional football in England was dying on its arse before Sky and the PL arrived. A 30,000+ crowd at a top-division match was a rarity, not the norm. (And yes I know that the increased popularity came at a price that some think was too high, but the fact stands). A similar change could benefit cricket. By all means focus all the money and attention on the top 'Premier League' division which will naturally hoover up the best players - but don't pull up the drawbridge. Keep a league structure: three divisions of six, one up and one down ... including the bottom of div 3 to swap with the top minor county.

Like in football it will be the best-organised and best-run clubs that will reach the honeypot of the top division, not necessarily the oldest and biggest. There's no reason why someone like Berkshire with the right backing and organisation couldn't 'do a Brighton' and take the place that a more 'massive' county thinks is theirs by right.