[Albion] The gigantic squad - who is leaving?

[Silverhatch]

Weir, Ruth & Greer will have a pretty good idea of who is, and isn’t, first team viable. FH will be adding his thoughts. There is a long time until the window closes and PSR issues (budgets and sanctions) are applied to the football landscape. The players and their representatives will also be looking at the squad size and wondering where they fit in. In other words, business as usual apart from PSR and that is to the Albion’s advantage.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

We'll see. Arsenal could easily have extended his contract and loaned him out for a season.

Arsenal will have certainly offered him a contract. The player chose us in this instance. Whether that's for first team football or not remains to be seen, but if I were to guess, I would say no promises have been made and the manager will decide on pre season whether he wants him this year or not.

My instinct on this tells me that as he has less first team experience than Osman we're more likely to incorporate Osman into the squad. But I think both will be desperate to impress in the games in Japan and at Loftus Road

 

[The Fits]

I think a lot of people are confusing "first team Premier League games" with "first team Premier League games this season".

He might have thought "I'm never breaking into my position here in Arsenal" and we might have said "we have a plan for you and in a year you will replace this lad in our squad, unless you f*** up somehow".

It sounds very weird that we would have made any kind of promise that he would play for us this season. More likely we have a clear plan for him and he likes it.

Exactly.
More likely we have said...
You will have more chance of minutes, here's example a, b, c and you'll be able to move to be a bigger club, here's example x, y, z.
It's definitely not going to be written into his contract or similar.

 

[pigmanovich]

We'll see. Arsenal could easily have extended his contract and loaned him out for a season.

They offered to loan him out for the second half of last season but it was contingent on him signing a new contract and he declined.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Exactly.
More likely we have said...
You will have more chance of minutes, here's example a, b, c and you'll be able to move to be a bigger club, here's example x, y, z.
It's definitely not going to be written into his contract or similar.

I doubt any player has first team minutes written in to their contract

 

[Guinness Boy]

They offered to loan him out for the second half of last season but it was contingent on him signing a new contract and he declined.

Cheers. Interesting......

 

[Change at Barnham]

Thanks for summary.
That’s an interesting football post, it’s nice to have something to read that isn’t politics related.

I largely agree with most of your assumptions.
If we lose Pascal we need another player like Lallana (but fit to play).
Weiffer and Baleba will be brilliant breaking up our opponents attacks. Perhaps it’s mainly the wide players are where our assists will come from.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Dahoud will stay and, unburdened by RDZ's capriciousness, turn into the player I have been telling you he is.

 

[BevBHA]

Dahoud will stay and, unburdened by RDZ's capriciousness, turn into the player I have been telling you he is.

I was delighted when he signed because of his pedigree and experience… I do still think he can come good, showed glimpses. I genuinely think he’s a better version of Gilmour. So him with Baleba in the middle with Wieffer playing the CB/CM role could be exciting.

 

[Right Brain Ronnie]

(scroll down to the bottom to skip out on the reasoning and go to my predictions)

Brighton had one of the biggest squads in the league last season and with four new signings and returning loanees, we now have a squad of at least 37 players who expect to see first team action somewhere:

Goalies: Verbruggen, Steele, Rushworth (3)

Defenders: Lamptey, Igor, Dunk, Webster, Barco, Veltman, Van Hecke, Estupinan (8)

Midfielders: Milner, Gilmour, Dahoud, Leonard, Hinshelwood, Gross, Baleba, Moder, Buonanotte, Ayari, Koslowski, Wieffer (12)

Forwards: Welbeck, Ferguson, Joao Pedro, March, Mitoma, Sima, Enciso, Undav, Adingra, Minteh, Cozy Blueberry, Sarmiento, Mazilu, Osman (14)

Could probably add a couple of players from the U23 team as I don't see players like Ed Turns, Offiah, Peupion and arguably a couple of others as likely to want to stick around and play youth football the entire season. I've also removed one first team player, Tom McGill, from this list as there's nothing indicating he expects to see any sort of action anywhere.

As we can see, both midfield and attack are really crowded right now and I guess there's where most of the cuts will have to be done.

We could perhaps assume that this lot is moving away: Pascal Gross, Kasper Koslowski, Yasin Ayari, Marc Leonard, Deniz Undav, Adrian Mazilu.

However, this still leaves us on 31 players in a league where most teams have no more than 20-21 players playing regularly over a season.

Looking at the "probably going" category, we can try to remove another few: Dahoud, Sima(?), Rushworth, Steele (if there's anything in the Saints stuff)


Still, 27 players left "expecting" first team football.

This is when it gets more useful to think of players staying:

Absolutely staying: Dunk, Estupinan, Gilmour, Barco, Hinshelwood, Baleba, Milner, Buonanotte, Wieffer, Welbeck, Ferguson, March, Minteh, Adingra, Julio Enciso (15)

Almost certainly staying (like a 90%+ chance): Verbruggen, Webster, Van Hecke(?), Veltman, Mitoma, Joao Pedro (6)

The above means 21.5 players (1.5 goalie + 20 outfield players). To that we want another goalie and ~3 outfield players, taking the squad to a solid 25.5 players (McGill or any other 3rd keeper is the 0.5).

This means AT LEAST (more if we make first team signings and I think another 2 will come) two out of these need to get loaned or sold somewhere:

Igor, Moder, Sarmiento, Osman, Cozy Bear.

I would not be surprised to see four of them go as two other outfield signings come in, with one of Osman or Cozy (likely the latter) going on loan.


BLA BLA BLA SO WHO THE FECK IS LEAVING THEN?!?!?!?!
Jason Steele
Carl Rushworth
Alibigor
Jakub Moder
Mohamed Dahoud
Yasin Ayari
Kacper Koslowski
Marc Leonard
Pascal Gross
(*googling*) .."Cozier-Duberry"
Jeremy Sarmiento
Adrian Mazilu
Deniz Undav
Abdallah Sima

Can I ask why are Mitoma and Pedro not on the absolutely staying list? I need them 100% and nothing less!

 

[scwiffy]

I’d guess Osman will avoid a loan as he’s likely the most versatile of the wing options and has shown promise when playing as a 9.

Looking at the numbers it seems we will loan or sell a fair few of the midfield options and likely replace with at least 1 first team ready signing. Bringing in a versatile wing back and maybe a younger centre half should balance out the squad nicely.

Arsenal will have certainly offered him a contract. The player chose us in this instance. Whether that's for first team football or not remains to be seen, but if I were to guess, I would say no promises have been made and the manager will decide on pre season whether he wants him this year or not.

My instinct on this tells me that as he has less first team experience than Osman we're more likely to incorporate Osman into the squad. But I think both will be desperate to impress in the games in Japan and at Loftus Road

As I posted on the ACD thread, Osman and ACD don't compete for the same position. March, Minteh and ACD on the right and Mitoma, Adingra and Osman on the left. With March out with injury for a chunk of the start of the season ACD will be number 2 behind Minteh. I think the most likely loan out will be Osman given he's behind Mitoma and Andingra. Either that or we are expecting to sell Mitoma

 

[Seagull27]

(scroll down to the bottom to skip out on the reasoning and go to my predictions)

Brighton had one of the biggest squads in the league last season and with four new signings and returning loanees, we now have a squad of at least 37 players who expect to see first team action somewhere:

Goalies: Verbruggen, Steele, Rushworth (3)

Defenders: Lamptey, Igor, Dunk, Webster, Barco, Veltman, Van Hecke, Estupinan (8)

Midfielders: Milner, Gilmour, Dahoud, Leonard, Hinshelwood, Gross, Baleba, Moder, Buonanotte, Ayari, Koslowski, Wieffer (12)

Forwards: Welbeck, Ferguson, Joao Pedro, March, Mitoma, Sima, Enciso, Undav, Adingra, Minteh, Cozy Blueberry, Sarmiento, Mazilu, Osman (14)

Could probably add a couple of players from the U23 team as I don't see players like Ed Turns, Offiah, Peupion and arguably a couple of others as likely to want to stick around and play youth football the entire season. I've also removed one first team player, Tom McGill, from this list as there's nothing indicating he expects to see any sort of action anywhere.

As we can see, both midfield and attack are really crowded right now and I guess there's where most of the cuts will have to be done.

We could perhaps assume that this lot is moving away: Pascal Gross, Kasper Koslowski, Yasin Ayari, Marc Leonard, Deniz Undav, Adrian Mazilu.

However, this still leaves us on 31 players in a league where most teams have no more than 20-21 players playing regularly over a season.

Looking at the "probably going" category, we can try to remove another few: Dahoud, Sima(?), Rushworth, Steele (if there's anything in the Saints stuff)


Still, 27 players left "expecting" first team football.

This is when it gets more useful to think of players staying:

Absolutely staying: Dunk, Estupinan, Gilmour, Barco, Hinshelwood, Baleba, Milner, Buonanotte, Wieffer, Welbeck, Ferguson, March, Minteh, Adingra, Julio Enciso (15)

Almost certainly staying (like a 90%+ chance): Verbruggen, Webster, Van Hecke(?), Veltman, Mitoma, Joao Pedro (6)

The above means 21.5 players (1.5 goalie + 20 outfield players). To that we want another goalie and ~3 outfield players, taking the squad to a solid 25.5 players (McGill or any other 3rd keeper is the 0.5).

This means AT LEAST (more if we make first team signings and I think another 2 will come) two out of these need to get loaned or sold somewhere:

Igor, Moder, Sarmiento, Osman, Cozy Bear.

I would not be surprised to see four of them go as two other outfield signings come in, with one of Osman or Cozy (likely the latter) going on loan.


BLA BLA BLA SO WHO THE FECK IS LEAVING THEN?!?!?!?!
Jason Steele
Carl Rushworth
Alibigor
Jakub Moder
Mohamed Dahoud
Yasin Ayari
Kacper Koslowski
Marc Leonard
Pascal Gross
(*googling*) .."Cozier-Duberry"
Jeremy Sarmiento
Adrian Mazilu
Deniz Undav
Abdallah Sima

Mark O'Mahony will be around the first team squad this year as well, if not sent out on loan

 

[sparkie]

Moder
Lamptey
Sima
Groß
Kozlowski
Undav
Steele
Dahoud

And perhaps a surprise.

Veltman is in the last year of his contract so

 

[abc]

I'd get rid of Wieffer - done absolutely nothing so far and would attract a decent fee which we could spend on a defensive midfielder

 

[scwiffy]

Personally I’d like to see Webster and Igor moved on and replaced with 1 big signing at Centre back. I’d then keep Veltman.

That would leave: Dunk, JPVH, New CB, Veltman for the Centre back positions. Would also say Pervis could quite happily play the left centre back position, with Barco at wing back. We also have March (if he returns) who is excellent at left wing back.

Looking at the squad we are almost definitely still a creative Centre midfielder short if Gross goes. It’s annoying because KDH would have been perfect.

Maybe with Webster, but Igor!? He's a left footed CB (a rare commodity) and in back 3/5 he'll slot right in comfortably. Websters position hinges on how Hurzeler plays the central CB. If he has him stepping forward into CDM like he did at St Pauli then that position will surley go to Baleba/Weiffer. If he wants to use a proper CB there then we have 3 CB spots up for grabs. Webster also plays his best football in a back 3/5 so that's part of the equation too.

 

[scwiffy]

Moder
Lamptey
Sima
Groß
Kozlowski
Undav
Steele
Dahoud

And perhaps a surprise.

Veltman is the last year of his contract so

If we get rid of Lamptey it'd be due to injuries, hes perfect for RWB role and we are under staffed there so it'd be him out another in (hoepfully)

Veltman is a good shout but he was originally a CB, he'd potentially be perfect for a back 3/5.

Both highlight our well know desperate need for Right Backs this transfer window

 

[tigertim68]

(scroll down to the bottom to skip out on the reasoning and go to my predictions)

Brighton had one of the biggest squads in the league last season and with four new signings and returning loanees, we now have a squad of at least 37 players who expect to see first team action somewhere:

Goalies: Verbruggen, Steele, Rushworth (3)

Defenders: Lamptey, Igor, Dunk, Webster, Barco, Veltman, Van Hecke, Estupinan (8)

Midfielders: Milner, Gilmour, Dahoud, Leonard, Hinshelwood, Gross, Baleba, Moder, Buonanotte, Ayari, Koslowski, Wieffer (12)

Forwards: Welbeck, Ferguson, Joao Pedro, March, Mitoma, Sima, Enciso, Undav, Adingra, Minteh, Cozy Blueberry, Sarmiento, Mazilu, Osman (14)

Could probably add a couple of players from the U23 team as I don't see players like Ed Turns, Offiah, Peupion and arguably a couple of others as likely to want to stick around and play youth football the entire season. I've also removed one first team player, Tom McGill, from this list as there's nothing indicating he expects to see any sort of action anywhere.

As we can see, both midfield and attack are really crowded right now and I guess there's where most of the cuts will have to be done.

We could perhaps assume that this lot is moving away: Pascal Gross, Kasper Koslowski, Yasin Ayari, Marc Leonard, Deniz Undav, Adrian Mazilu.

However, this still leaves us on 31 players in a league where most teams have no more than 20-21 players playing regularly over a season.

Looking at the "probably going" category, we can try to remove another few: Dahoud, Sima(?), Rushworth, Steele (if there's anything in the Saints stuff)


Still, 27 players left "expecting" first team football.

This is when it gets more useful to think of players staying:

Absolutely staying: Dunk, Estupinan, Gilmour, Barco, Hinshelwood, Baleba, Milner, Buonanotte, Wieffer, Welbeck, Ferguson, March, Minteh, Adingra, Julio Enciso (15)

Almost certainly staying (like a 90%+ chance): Verbruggen, Webster, Van Hecke(?), Veltman, Mitoma, Joao Pedro (6)

The above means 21.5 players (1.5 goalie + 20 outfield players). To that we want another goalie and ~3 outfield players, taking the squad to a solid 25.5 players (McGill or any other 3rd keeper is the 0.5).

This means AT LEAST (more if we make first team signings and I think another 2 will come) two out of these need to get loaned or sold somewhere:

Igor, Moder, Sarmiento, Osman, Cozy Bear.

I would not be surprised to see four of them go as two other outfield signings come in, with one of Osman or Cozy (likely the latter) going on loan.


BLA BLA BLA SO WHO THE FECK IS LEAVING THEN?!?!?!?!
Jason Steele
Carl Rushworth
Alibigor
Jakub Moder
Mohamed Dahoud
Yasin Ayari
Kacper Koslowski
Marc Leonard
Pascal Gross
(*googling*) .."Cozier-Duberry"
Jeremy Sarmiento
Adrian Mazilu
Deniz Undav
Abdallah Sima

Have you seen the size of Chelsea squad, and they keep signing more players,

 

[GT49er]

I think a lot of people are confusing "first team Premier League games" with "first team Premier League games this season".

He might have thought "I'm never breaking into my position here in Arsenal" and we might have said "we have a plan for you and in a year you will replace this lad in our squad, unless you f*** up somehow".

It sounds very weird that we would have made any kind of promise that he would play for us this season. More likely we have a clear plan for him and he likes it.

I'm absolutely sure he wouldn't have signed for Brighton unless he was going to be in the squad. In the squad, that is, not necessarily in the team - a place in the team would still have to be earned, of course.
Can you imagine the conversion?
"OK Amario lad - you want to leave Arsenal because Saka is blocking your path to the first team. Right?"
"Yeh"
"How about signing for Brighton then?"
"Umm.....OK"
"Good lad. Sign here. You'll be spending next season on loan at Stoke."
"**** off!"

 

[BevBHA]

Maybe with Webster, but Igor!? He's a left footed CB (a rare commodity) and in back 3/5 he'll slot right in comfortably. Websters position hinges on how Hurzeler plays the central CB. If he has him stepping forward into CDM like he did at St Pauli then that position will surley go to Baleba/Weiffer. If he wants to use a proper CB there then we have 3 CB spots up for grabs. Webster also plays his best football in a back 3/5 so that's part of the equation too.

So your solution is to keep Igor because he’s left footed? Are you forgetting that he’s got the agility of a cruise ship? That he runs like he’s towing a lorry? Or that he’s generally just not very good? Sell now whilst there’s abit of (rumoured) interest from Italy.

 

[Fiskmås]

I’m surprised how little faith many seem to have in our current defenders. Sure, the stats were horrible last year, but wasn’t that mostly down to RDZ’s setup - as long as we’d score more than the opponent we were happy to sacrifice a few goals in the other end.

Webster and Igor for example are absolutely not the guys I’d choose as last-ditch defenders backtracking to handle fast counter attacks, but isn’t one of the most exciting things about Hürzeler a quick switch to a back five after a failed early press? The whole idea is that we won’t see as many 1-on-1 situations in the defence anymore.

Defenders that might have looked crap under De Zerbi might just look fantastic under Fabian. Fingers crossed.