[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Baldseagull]

Truth in that last bit - Sweden, Denmark and Finland get there (but some people are still unhappy), by the modest and average paid suffering c.45% in taxes from their modest pay. No UK party has the guts to suggest anything like that. Even the LibDems are saying just a 1% income tax rise. Not sure about the Greens.

Definitely positives about those societies.

But the peoples of the rest of Europe and also North America simply won’t stomach such a taxation system.

If services are actually there, and work well, I think people are happy to pay. When you have numpties like Chris Grayling getting shifted from cabinet post to cabinet post and wasting millions in each role, it is hard to stomach high taxes. Those countries also value expert opinion and collect data on all kinds of things to ensure policy is effective, not just a vote winner.

 

[Weststander]

So much for only taxing the rich!

The Labour noise over the last 2 years was only to hit the (tax avoiding) rich and multinationals.

Then that threshold was reduced to £80k today. But hidden in the small print today, is that pensioners and small company owners who have total income over £12,500 pa, will face a hike in tax on their dividends (those greater than £2k a year) from 7.5% to 20%. Those above £50,000, to 40%.

This will hit family shareholders of 2 million small limited companies, plus the 1.7 million pensioners who’ve built up listed shareholdings in the likes of Glaxo, Tesco, to supplement their income.

 

[Bozza]

Yes couples where one person does all the work and the wife draws a dividend for doing nothing, clearly going after tax avoidance to encourage PAYE

Do you know how dividends work?

They are not recompense for labour.

 

[Weststander]

Dell and Apple setup European operations in Ireland for low corporation tax, Amazon in Luxembourg for low VAT (originally)... the entire reason we have the problem is because those companies setup in particular countries for tax reasons. the lobbyist overplay it - Google isnt going to leave King Cross any time soon - but its extremely shortsighted to pretend it wont have an impact. We know tax changes behavior, we tax some things specifically for this reason, so why wouldnt we expect a change?

Good post, but to clarify one thing.

Google’s trendy Kings Cross office is just their UK branch employing 800 people. The European ‘HQ’ is very conveniently sited in ultra low corporation tax Dublin. Meaning they have their cake and eat it ..... all the benefits of being in a major economy and world leading city of London, whilst paying next to no UK corporation tax.

 

[Weststander]

Do you know how dividends work?

They are not recompense for labour.

Reward for initial investment, no matter how small. Even McDonnell doesn’t challenge that centuries old basis of company and tax law.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Could this cause trouble for the Tories?

Benjamin Netanyahu: Israel PM charged with corruption

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50508399

Well disgraced former International Development Secretary Priti Patel had to resign over unofficial meetings with Israel so you never know.

 

[BLOCK F]

The Labour noise over the last 2 years was only to hit the (tax avoiding) rich and multinationals.

Then that threshold was reduced to £80k today. But hidden in the small print today, is that pensioners and small company owners who have total income over £12,500 pa, will face a hike in tax on their dividends (those greater than £2k a year) from 7.5% to 20%. Those above £50,000, to 40%.

This will hit family shareholders of 2 million small limited companies, plus the 1.7 million pensioners who’ve built up listed shareholdings in the likes of Glaxo, Tesco, to supplement their income.

They are completely nuts.
I've always said that they can't carry out their rash undertakings without clobbering ordinary people. It was as plain as the nose on your face.
The thought of a Labour majority is the stuff of nightmares for business, the economy and many individuals in this country.I just cannot believe the blind faith that the hardliners on here put into the Labour plans.
I've only been in quite a short time and have only just seen the reaction of the financial commentators on the telly. To say they couldn't really hide their astonishment was something of an understatement!
Hopefully, they won't get the chance to put their plans into practice.
I shall read tomorrows press with interest.

 

[Baldseagull]

How will creating a punitive business tax regime encourage them to stay in the UK?

Don't know if it is "punitive" but yes, some of those that can arrange matters to be taxed elsewhere will if it is beneficial.

This is one of the things I am finding weird though, half the country was happy to risk the economy to hear less Polish on the bus, get a blue passport, and have fishing rights, but tell them they will have better schools, a better NHS, affordable housing, a shorter working week etc., and they are suddenly concerned about how much tax Billionaires are going to get hit for to pay for it, it's as if somehow the Billionaires have some sort of mind control over the masses.

 

[Grombleton]

View attachment 117409

Tory bus has another problem with the Mirror.

Was it the left or right wing?

Let's be honest, they've a problem with both right now.

 

[Ernest]

Once a racist , always a racist

[tweet]1197581501698920448[/tweet]

 

[KZNSeagull]

Don't know if it is "punitive" but yes, some of those that can arrange matters to be taxed elsewhere will if it is beneficial.

This is one of the things I am finding weird though, half the country was happy to risk the economy to hear less Polish on the bus, get a blue passport, and have fishing rights, but tell them they will have better schools, a better NHS, affordable housing, a shorter working week etc., and they are suddenly concerned about how much tax Billionaires are going to get hit for to pay for it, it's as if somehow the Billionaires have some sort of mind control over the masses.

No, the concern is regarding creating an environment where businesses want to operate and invest in the UK.

 

[BensGrandad]

The Labour manifesto promises to build 100,000 council houses per year plus a further 50,000 low cost social housing this is fundimentaly the most important thing needed for the youth of today I am really happy with this and it has confirmed I will be voting Labour, as they always say you never loose buying a home the value over the long term will increase so it's a national investment that we can all benifit from

Where are these 150,000 houses per year going to be built, on what land?

 

[The Clamp]

Once a racist , always a racist

[tweet]1197581501698920448[/tweet]

While it’s always good to point out this stuff, do be aware that the majority of Johnson supporters are thick racists so this kind of article actually helps him. The same when him or Trump say sexist things . It bolsters their support .

 

[theonlymikey]

Imagine if CH4 empty chaired BJ on Sunday night? Absolute scenes

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[Weststander]

They are completely nuts.
I've always said that they can't carry out their rash undertakings without clobbering ordinary people. It was as plain as the nose on your face.
The thought of a Labour majority is the stuff of nightmares for business, the economy and many individuals in this country.I just cannot believe the blind faith that the hardliners on here put into the Labour plans.
I've only been in quite a short time and have only just seen the reaction of the financial commentators on the telly. To say they couldn't really hide their astonishment was something of an understatement!
Hopefully, they won't get the chance to put their plans into practice.
I shall read tomorrows press with interest.

There are many NSC’ers who run small limited companies - web designers, traders, plumbers, project managers, accountants, IT consultants, etc. Many it appears are vehemently anti Tory, leaning towards Corbyn this time around.

Someone making a profit of say £45,000 a year, will possibly play increased corporation (a small companies rate not revealed by McDonnell yet), but more startlingly if they paid themselves dividends of say £35,000 a year, the personal income tax on that would increase (after the £2k dividend allowance) by £4,125 per annum under this Labour manifesto.

Blair, Brown, Darling and Osborne did not do that, because they rewarded folk having the courage to start a business, risk losing literally everything, who help create GDP, who often take on staff, plus of course shareholder directors of their own companies get de facto no sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy rights, full or 90% paid maternity/paternity leave, job security.

Governments have encouraged people setting up as limited companies, HMRC prefer limited companies because their accounts are far easier to scrutinise electronically and benchmark against competitors in the same trades, narrowing the tax gap over less reliable sole trader accounts/tax returns.

McDonnell clearly ignores all of that, with his attack on dividends.

 

[Weststander]

Where are these 150,000 houses per year going to be built, on what land?

The manifesto says in existing urban brownfield sites.

 

[Bozza]

There are many NSC’ers who run small limited companies - web designers, traders, plumbers, project managers, accountants, IT consultants, etc. Many it appears are vehemently anti Tory, leaning towards Corbyn this time around.

Someone making a profit of say £45,000 a year, will possibly play increased corporation (a small companies rate not revealed by McDonnell yet), but more startlingly if they paid themselves dividends of say £35,000 a year, the personal income tax on that would increase (after the £2k dividend allowance) by £4,125 per annum under this Labour manifesto.

Blair, Brown, Darling and Osborne did not do that, because they rewarded folk having the courage to start a business, risk losing literally everything, who help create GDP, who often take on staff, plus of course shareholder directors of their own companies get de facto no sick pay, holiday pay, redundancy rights, full or 90% paid maternity/paternity leave, job security.

Governments have encouraged people setting up as limited companies, HMRC prefer limited companies because their accounts are far easier to scrutinise electronically and benchmark against competitors in the same trades, narrowing the tax gap over less reliable sole trader accounts.

McDonnell clearly ignores all of that, with his attack on dividends.

For a while I've been thinking about a poll to ask people how they'd vote based on the impact to their personal circumstances versus the perceived greater good. I think most would be prepared to sacrifice a bit themselves if they believed that, in doing so, the benefit would be felt elsewhere. But how far does that extend?

For example, how many people would genuinely place their vote knowing that it could mean a dramatic negative impact on them and their family (less disposable income, not being to afford a holiday and cutting activities their kids can do etc) in order to effect a broader societal improvement.

 

[BensGrandad]

The manifesto says in existing urban brownfield sites.

Is there sufficient for 150,000 houses per year? I doubt it very much.

 

[Baldseagull]

Dividend tax up from 7.5% to 20% up to 50k total income **
Dividend tax up from 32.1% to 40% in that next band up.
Abolition of CGT annual exemption and entrepreneurs relief when retiring.
Greater income tax rate over £80k income.
Higher Corp Tax rate.

Are going to hit all the freelancers, small businessmen, one man band and husband and wife limited companies in a very big way in hard cash. Knowing many NSC’ers through pm’s etc over the years, there are an awful lot of people on NSC going to be hit hard (most from my knowledge Remainers and anti Boris).

** alone will cost a couple each earning £50k in total, from a company or two, £9,375 in additional annual income tax to quantify just one tax.

NOT a political comment, just a hard taxation fact.

People such a BBC, IT and Project Manager freelancers operating through a ltd co, earning per hour say £500 to infinity, are going to face eye watering increases in annual tax bills.

Interesting times to say the least. If elected.

Not as much as it might first appear, the most tax efficient way of getting money out of your business accounts and into your personal accounts is currently to take a low wage, and take more as a dividend, however money that is paid out in dividends has to come from company profits, which is taxed at 19%. So to take a £1000 dividend, you will be paying £235 in corporation tax, and then pay the dividend tax on the £1000 at 7.5% = £75. So, ignoring N.I. element, if you bill for £1235 as a Ltd Company, you will get £925 after corporate and dividend tax. It would be £988 at 20% personal tax rate if it had been taken as wages, but this is ignoring the National insurance element which I cannot be arsed to work out, but it generally works out better in the current tax system to pay it as dividends which do not have any National Insurance attached, rather than salary, which does, both employer and employee elements if it is your company.
Yes, there will be a hit to freelancers operating as a Ltd Co., but be aware, the reason for many having a Ltd. Co in the first place is to be tax efficient, whatever happens people will try and minimise their tax liabilty, and people will change their set up to do as well as they can in the tax system of the day.

 

[Baldseagull]

Good post.

Misleading post (unintentionally I am sure)