The Faustian pact comes unstuck.....

[London Irish]

Sorry, but that's plainly bollocks.

If there was no intent to pop at / belittle the contribution of Bloom, there is no way he'd have worded his comparison the way he did - "replaced the passion and commitment of Knight, with the money of Tony Bloom". But then you knew that, anyway.

Pretty much everybody at this stage is at least questioning Bloom's decision to persevere with Sami - that doesn't mean they are 'lickers' for pulling up the ungrateful snides choosing to attack his character or commitment to the club.

Correcting that slight, is all most on this thread are 'guilty' of. As you'll see from my response, I was quite clear that this was the ONLY part of Attilla's post that I didn't agree with.

But stating a preference for Knight isn't necessarily belittling Bloom is it? It's the mentality that takes this as a personal slight against Bloom that I find questionable.

You are entitled to find Bloom more passionate than Knight if you like or about the same - I don't think you'll find Attila having a pop at you for that. I would say try and be as liberal and generous to his views. He is trying to seperate his broad critique of money in football from Bloom the fan as much as he can from what I read - but obviously you can only take that so far - and having a debate on that shouldn't be personal.

 

[Pavilionaire]

But stating a preference for Knight isn't necessarily belittling Bloom is it? It's the mentality that takes this as a personal slight against Bloom that I find questionable.

He is trying to seperate his broad critique of money in football from Bloom the fan as much as he can from what I read - but obviously you can only take that so far - and having a debate on that shouldn't be personal.

Attila said "The fact is that the people in charge of our club are cocking up big time at the moment."


Seems pretty specific that this is criticism aimed at Bloom. He is, after all, in charge.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Attila said "The fact is that the people in charge of our club are cocking up big time at the moment."


Seems pretty specific that this is criticism aimed at Bloom. He is, after all, in charge.

I don't even object to that. To hold an opinion that Bloom (or those tasked with doing his bidding) has 'cocked up' is an opinion he is entitled to hold. We are after all 22nd in the division - SOMEONE has cocked up.

What I do object to, and what I'm sure Bloom himself would object to, is the assertion that he lacks 'passion and commitment'.

This is the part that LI's disingenious analysis, deliberately ignores.

 

[B.W.]

LI back to his old tricks - quelle surprise.

 

[London Irish]

Chuffed, I hope. Money to burn on half a dozen twenty-goals-a-year strikers.
I mean, what else matters?

The £200m academy Man City have just opened? The idea that foreign owners dont care about investment in community projects, and local born owners really do care, is just some xenophobic notion muddying what is already a complicated debate.

 

[London Irish]

I don't even object to that. To hold an opinion that Bloom (or those tasked with doing his bidding) has 'cocked up' is an opinion he is entitled to hold. We are after all 22nd in the division - SOMEONE has cocked up.

What I do object to, and what I'm sure Bloom himself would object to, is the assertion that he lacks 'passion and commitment'.

This is the part that LI's disingenious analysis, deliberately ignores.

Really? And of course it isn't disingenious AT ALL, NOT ONE BIT to put those words in Attila's mouth.

What gets me is you do have real and genuine differences with Attila. You are much more in tune with the business direction of the club, Attila isn't. Why not debate those sensibly rather than invent straw ones?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The Faustian pact comes unstuck……

replace the passion and hands-on commitment of Dick Knight with the money of Tony Bloom

Really? And of course it isn't disingenious AT ALL, NOT ONE BIT to put those words in Attila's mouth.

What gets me is you do have real and genuine differences with Attila. You are much more in tune with the business direction of the club, Attila isn't. Why not debate those sensibly rather than invent straw ones?

You really are tiresome. Here, quoted above, is the ONLY LINE of Attilla's post I objected to. Its his post - the words he typed. How on earth does me calling him on them, constitute 'putting words into his mouth', FFS?

I have no 'real and genuine differences' with Attilla at all. I've never once met the man, and despite your unfounded guesses to the contrary, our political allegiences and values are far more closely aligned than you might like to imagine. I strongly disagreed with the tone and content of ONE point he made, and we debated it. End.

 

[London Irish]

Oh well - I'd only be repeating myself if I replied to any of that. Lets let the good folk of NSC decide the merits.

I'm off to my works Xmas party to get pissed so a genuine merry Xmas to you Hans old chap

 

[attila]

Except, HKFC, that what i actually wrote was
'replace the passion and hands-on commitment of Dick Knight with the money of Tony Bloom, *another lifelong Albion fan*'
the last four words of which were intended precisely to PRECLUDE people jumping to the conclusion you jumped to, which that the Faustian pact had some reference to Tony, which it didn't.
As I already posted a few pages back, my allusion of a Faustian pact was to the compromise those of us who detest what modern football has become have to make to continue supporting the clubs we love. That's it, really. If you choose to read something else into it that is your right, but it was not my intention. If I want to have a go at Bloom I'll do it out front, I promise you. I'm not exactly a shrinking violet

Irish: re St Pauli, I did a spot at their annual 'Kessel Braun Weisses' cabaret in the main stand at the Millerntor a few weeks ago during our German tour in the international break (and my band were the aftershow party) I don't think they think FCSP are going down judging by the songs sung and the alcohol sodden optimism on display - mind you, alcohol sodden optimism is the very essence of St Pauli, regardless of league position!
Pub.

 

[Faldo]

Is this a binfest yet? A lot of the posts are too long for me, so I can't tell.

 

[portlock seagull]

Ouch

True though. Was obvious Attila was having a pop at corporatised football not Bloom personally, but there is a breed of rich man licker on here who can't bear any debate on the matter.

Attila makes an interesting point about the faustian pact that makes even footballing lefties like him want to feed the crazy Sky Premiership capitalist cycle too - I'll admit to those contradictions as well.

Can I ask Attila does he feel the same way about St Pauli? They are having a terrible season and are stone last in Bunda 2.

That's not great for their fans obviously, but because they don't embrace corporatised football at least they don't feel BOTH disappointed AND ripped off by high prices.

I think your last sentence is true. I felt more a part of this club at Withdean and priestfield because we weren't getting so obviously stung. The dream however has turned sour, time will tell if it becomes another nightmare but frankly I'm not up for another fight. Just going to walk away quietly.time for another generation of fans to change things. Did my bit back in the nineties and noughties

 

[Working class pride]

Sounds like a classic Albion night last night. Shit team and fans in revolt but Attilla, where was the violin!?! A protest is not a protest without you and the violin!

 

[Hungry Joe]

Sounds like a classic Albion night last night. Shit team and fans in revolt but Attilla, where was the violin!?! A protest is not a protest without you and the violin!

I think you'll find there was a lonely melancholy violin playing in Sammi's head most of last night.

 

[Captain Sensible]

I think your last sentence is true. I felt more a part of this club at Withdean and priestfield because we weren't getting so obviously stung. The dream however has turned sour, time will tell if it becomes another nightmare but frankly I'm not up for another fight. Just going to walk away quietly.time for another generation of fans to change things. Did my bit back in the nineties and noughties

This sort of apathy will kill us, now is not the time to walk away. Stay and fight. Mobilise the troops!! Honestly letting the club go the way it's going to go and we could end up in a very bad place.

 

[portlock seagull]

This sort of apathy will kill us, now is not the time to walk away. Stay and fight. Mobilise the troops!! Honestly letting the club go the way it's going to go and we could end up in a very bad place.

Can't I just follow via Final Score? Does that count? Seems to for half of the British public, least everyone in my office 'supports' a club.

Pleeeeeease Release me, let me go......
Because IIIIIIII, don't love you, anymore....

 

[Return of the Rev]

the faustian pact comes unstuck……

we all knew what we were fighting for: It took about 16 years, but we got it, and we celebrated. To do it we had to embrace the ‘money is everything and we’re customers now’ culture of modern football and replace the passion and hands-on commitment of dick knight with the money of tony bloom, another lifelong albion fan, and a vast majority of albion fans were happy to do that.

Even those of us who weren’t happy accepted that if our long fight to save the club we love was to have its final and glorious conclusion there was no alternative. We moved into the amex, and apart from those who were priced out of the game or, like my wife, actually preferred the often sneered at ‘cottage industry’ of withdean (she’s from northwich, loves non league football and is an albion fan by marriage, it’s different…) we relaxed, drank our harveys, ate our pies - expensive to be sure, but the money is going to the club, what the hell - and trusted the shiny new corporate appointees to give us a shiny new future on the pitch to match our shiny new corporate stadium. Speaking personally, i was overjoyed to rediscover the simple pleasures of just being a football fan again and to leave everything else to the people paid lots of money to make sure it happened right. Yes, something is missing for me now in the age of modern football, but the wonderful trappings and the (until recently) on field success more than made up for that.

For a couple of years everything seemed fine: And it’s worth remembering that, compared to the war years, everything is still fine. The future of our club is secure: In the bad old days we used to dream about a time when moaning about the playing performance and management tactics was the only problem! But such comparisons are not enough. The fact is that the people in charge of our club are cocking up big time at the moment.

We need a manager with a clear understanding of the changes in tactics necessary to win matches, the ability to motivate the team and the obvious passion and commitment to inspire the fans to back him. And that manager should be in a position to employ the players he identifies as best suiting those tactics, rather than having to work with a squad brought in by an outsider whose current track record is nothing short of disastrous. Hyypia and burke should go, and go now. A new manager should be in charge of squad recruitment. It’s not rocket science.

Albion fans most certainly are not ‘too nice’: We proved that over many years! What we most certainly have been is exhausted after the years of struggle, happy with our new surroundings and thoroughly prepared to give the new set up plenty of time to get things right. For a time that seemed to be the case but they are not getting things right any more. Relegation would be a disaster. In my opinion, it is time for us to combine 100% backing of the team with a strong show of opposition to hyypia and burke. A difficult balance but after all we’ve gone through i’m sure we can manage it! Yes, it’s modern corporate football but don’t underestimate the power of the fans – especially albion fans - to change things. We are still listened to: In a different way to the old days, to be sure, but we are.

Burke out
hyypia out

This plus the cup final cash and water slide.