The Enemy Within: Miner's strike and the Tories today

[attila]

Scargill? Met him quite a few times. Totally committed to the defence of the mining communities and the fight for better pay and conditions for his members, as a trade union leader should be. Adored by thousands in those communities who recognised that fact. Totally right about the government's secret pit closure programme as the 30 year rule revelations proved. Unfortunately, also a control freak and egomaniac who attempted to dominate the union before, during and after the strike in a way that was divisive within the NUM and disastrous in terms of the way it allowed the media to portray it. Now an isolated figure who is Marmite even within the inner circles of the old campaigners. Comparisons with Hitler......could ONLY come from someone from Worthing

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So I was born in '85 and have never really managed to piece the miners' strike together.

But it seems to me that a lot of people, my age and younger, have a great deal of antipathy to the Conservative's because of this time.

Seems like most people are agreed that the mines were loss making and so drained the government coffers in trying to keep them open. Seems like most people would say that Thatcher had 'bought' the Police, who were very heavy handed. I once dated a girl whose northern father delighted in tales of 'gravel rashing' miners in the north of England.

So my simplistic take on this is: shutting them down was the right way to go, but the mistake was demonizing the miners ('the enemy within') and a lack of interest in their future employment possibilities.

1) So, have I got this right? What am I missing?

2) Seems like there are a lot of young people who weren't around and have grown up in a completely different world who 'have never forgiven' the Tories for this period. When will the Tories slip loose from this association, if ever?

1) You are right.
2) I have not forgiven the Tories yet

 

[Seagull on the wing]

What you're missing is that we had the most venomous bitch of an PM in the entire history of the UK. It wasn't 'The Tories', most of whom were the same soft set of public schoolboys with an inherent sense of fair play we've always had. Thatcher, on the other hand, was one evil institutionalised psychopath. For better or worse, took a seriously nasty piece of work to slap down Arthur Scargill.

Thatcher.....Who was bought up in a working class family, she didn't inherit the fortune of the rich,she worked hard to achieve her political status...took the country from it's lethargic way of production,stopped Scargill,Red Robbo from their destructive strikes...Bettshanger miners...go on strike because of a puddle of water,just about dampened the feet of a duck...'Everybody out! Wet conditions. (In reality they wanted the job slowed down because it was a 3 month contract.
When I was on the Oil Rigs (American) a party of ex miners and Steel workers came out to work,landed on deck from the helicopter,told the skipper that they were going to set up a union...they didn't get below decks,they returned on the same whirlybird.
You know the conditions when you start a job...you don't have to accept what's on offer...it's a free choice.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Thatcher.....Who was bought up in a working class family, she didn't inherit the fortune of the rich,she worked hard to achieve her political status...took the country from it's lethargic way of production,stopped Scargill,Red Robbo from their destructive strikes...Bettshanger miners...go on strike because of a puddle of water,just about dampened the feet of a duck...'Everybody out! Wet conditions. (In reality they wanted the job slowed down because it was a 3 month contract.
When I was on the Oil Rigs (American) a party of ex miners and Steel workers came out to work,landed on deck from the helicopter,told the skipper that they were going to set up a union...they didn't get below decks,they returned on the same whirlybird.
You know the conditions when you start a job...you don't have to accept what's on offer...it's a free choice.

Jesus. When I say jump, you say how high?

 

[WATFORD zero]

So Scargill was a cross between Hitler and Stalin who was going to start a revolution and needed to be stopped at all costs, even if it meant wiping out whole industries and communities and then having to pay huge amounts in benefits to those communities as they had no industries.

Now it has been fully explained, I can see exactly why they had to do what they did

 

[sir albion]

People just can't stop bashing the great Iron Lady....she did very well and some bad things too,but all pm's are similar to this day.
It's a job where it's impossible to please everyone

 

[WATFORD zero]

Thatcher.....Who was bought up in a working class family, she didn't inherit the fortune of the rich,she worked hard to achieve her political status...

To be fair, I think marrying millionaire Dennis who then paid for her to be re-trained as a barrister and her subsequent move into politics may have helped a little

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

To be fair, I think marrying millionaire Dennis who then paid for her to be re-trained as a barrister and her subsequent move into politics may have helped a little

Quite, a gold digger as well as a witch.

 

[sir albion]

Quite, a gold digger as well as a witch.

Show some respect to the great lady grrrrrr

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Show some respect to the great lady grrrrrr

 

[attila]

Thatcher.....Who was bought up in a working class family, she didn't inherit the fortune of the rich,she worked hard to achieve her political status...took the country from it's lethargic way of production,stopped Scargill,Red Robbo from their destructive strikes...Bettshanger miners...go on strike because of a puddle of water,just about dampened the feet of a duck...'Everybody out! Wet conditions. (In reality they wanted the job slowed down because it was a 3 month contract.
When I was on the Oil Rigs (American) a party of ex miners and Steel workers came out to work,landed on deck from the helicopter,told the skipper that they were going to set up a union...they didn't get below decks,they returned on the same whirlybird.
You know the conditions when you start a job...you don't have to accept what's on offer...it's a free choice.

If everyone took that attitude kids would still be going up chimneys, there would be a 12 hour day and only 5% of the population would have the vote

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If everyone took that attitude kids would still be going up chimneys, there would be a 12 hour day and only 5% of the population would have the vote

Quite

 

[Ernest]

If everyone took that attitude kids would still be going up chimneys, there would be a 12 hour day and only 5% of the population would have the vote

Sad people still think like that

 

[alfredmizen]

No, but what has that got to do with anything?

I quoted attilas post and highlighted the part about 'thatcher smiled as those 96 fans died' , you then questioned me about hillsborough and the actions of the south yorkshire police, thats why, not really that difficult to make the connection is it ?

 

[OGH's Libido]

Jesus. When I say jump, you say how high?

Got a feeling SotW would ask how high first, then decide whether to jump.

 

[alfredmizen]

Jesus. When I say jump, you say how high?

when I say jump, you dont ask how high, you ask WHEN CAN I COME DOWN

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sad people still think like that

And a shame people are so afraid, and kowtow to employer's conditions and demands.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

If everyone took that attitude kids would still be going up chimneys, there would be a 12 hour day and only 5% of the population would have the vote

And there would only be one party to vote for because any other political parties would be illegal.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I do love how a lot of people of a Brighton and Hove Albion Messageboard pontificate on the pros and cons of Coal Mining when I am sure they have never been down a pit in their lives (I have, 4 in total including a Portland Stone Mine in Dorset which is still open and I visit annually).

.

I don't think you need to visit a pit to have an opinion. And for me it wasn't about the mining industry per se, more the short sightedness of the decision and the way large communities of proud hard working people were left high and dry, and to this day, largely ignored with no after care.

And I have visited former mining towns and seen the desperation.

 

[Lenny Rider]

The joys of the close season on NSC means we get this very interesting debate.

So just taking one of the issues raised IF Thatcher hadn't beaten Heath in the Tory leadership election of 1975, and she'd just disappeared to the back benches do people honestly think this country would be in a better state today?

For all the bad things she might have been perceived to have done she also did a lot of good.