The Denver killer is clearly a very very sick young Man.

[binky]

Reducto ad absurdum.

Punishing everyone else

What a shame that some people including New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg are already exploiting the movie theater shooting tragedy to stoke their long-standing nuclear weapons ban agendas. Sadly, their warped view is that the heinous actions of one lone nut justify punishing everyone else with a slippery slope of harsh new restrictions on fundamental rights and freedoms. But the tens of millions of peaceable nuclear weapons owners in this country and our representatives have done nothing wrong. Those who level their vitriol at us can be assured we will fight tooth and nail any attempt to erode our rights.

Nuclear weapon and other WMD control is never the answer. Someone intent on harming others will always find a way and it is incredibly naïve to assume any amount of legislation can prevent such attacks. A safer society depends upon empowering citizens to use whatever means available to protect themselves and their loved ones.

 

[dingodan]

Americans just accept this sort of incident as a price for their freedom. Was Stateside for a previous shooting spree - the Asian kid Georgia Uni I think one, and it was on in bars 24/7 and when talking to me they said it was their equivalent of football hooligans

It's not the price for their freedom. If they had freedom, they would not have paid this price. This is the price paid for losing your freedom.

If the 2nd amendment was respected, a law abiding citizen could be armed in the cinema. One armed, law abiding citizen could have saved many innocent lives in this case.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

As I said before I agree that we cant rehabilitate such a dangerous offender. We have to protect the public from any more such obvious threat. But we need to try and work with him whilst he is in a mental institution to try and understand what led to it. I would never say that there is an acceptable reason for this happening. I would never excuse it. But failing to try and understand it is just making the chances of it happening it again in the future even more likely.

Absolutely spot on. No one has ever said nurture him and let him back into society, the hang him high crowd have used that as a red herring, as a society we need to know why , if possible. Keep him in a secure hospital for the rest of his life and let him eventually, once the events have been a long time in the past, reflect on what he has done. Killing another person has never done any good, it is just a pack mentality answer and the big question, that no one can answer is, if killing is horrific surely killing as an answer to that defeats the whole f***ing argument.

 

[Frutos]

Keep him in a secure hospital for the rest of his life and let him eventually, once the events have been a long time in the past, reflect on what he has done.

To what end?

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

To what end?

I don't know maybe an old fashioned view that people should ultimately be accountable for their actions and before they leave this earth for the ultimate judgement, if you believe in that, they have to face one day what they have done. It may take years but one day he may realise the gravity of his actions and that will be a better punishment than simply hanging him and move onto the next one, when it happens, and it will.

 

[Lokki 7]

I don't know maybe an old fashioned view that people should ultimately be accountable for their actions and before they leave this earth for the ultimate judgement, if you believe in that, they have to face one day what they have done. It may take years but one day he may realise the gravity of his actions and that will be a better punishment than simply hanging him and move onto the next one, when it happens, and it will.

And how much does that cost? Who foots the bill for his secure stay, food, upkeep and counselling for decades? Certainly millions, if not tens of millions of tax payers money spent on his leisurely reflection.

 

[El Presidente]

And how much does that cost? Who foots the bill for his secure stay, food, upkeep and counselling for decades? Certainly millions, if not tens of millions of tax payers money spent on his leisurely reflection.

Compared to the cost of three wars currently being footed by Uncle Sam, it is not extreme. If he is mentally ill, then what would you suggest is an appropriate alternative for him?

 

[Lokki 7]

Compared to the cost of three wars currently being footed by Uncle Sam, it is not extreme.

At least they are good for the economy in terms of providing jobs and creating a demand for goods. Oh, and they upkeep our freedom too apparently. Win win.

If he is mentally ill, then what would you suggest is an appropriate alternative for him?

Put him to work. Instead of spending millions on the most qualified of professionals pouring over his every thought, get him digging holes, fixing mailbags or whatever.

 

[Acker79]

At least they are good for the economy in terms of providing jobs and creating a demand for goods. Oh, and they upkeep our freedom too apparently. Win win.

Don't prisons employ people? Don't they buy things (food, bedding, tvs, play stations, as well as administrative equipment for offices)? Don't they protect our freedom by locking up people who don't respect our rights?

 

[Mellotron]

If the 2nd amendment was respected, a law abiding citizen could be armed in the cinema. One armed, law abiding citizen could have saved many innocent lives in this case.

Such a backwards way of looking at it.

"If EVERYONE had guns, EVERYONE would be ok."

Right.....

 

[Lokki 7]

Don't prisons employ people? Don't they buy things (food, bedding, tvs, play stations, as well as administrative equipment for offices)? Don't they protect our freedom by locking up people who don't respect our rights?

We are not talking about prisons though are we? We are discussing what to do with a single mentally ill* / evil* (delete as applicable) mass murderer. It has been suggested that we put him in the most expensive secure hospital facility and study him in order to give him the opportunity to reflect on what he has done. I'm merely pointing out that I think society would be better off if we put the **** to hard labour.

 

[Surrey_Albion]

He is very intelligent which seems to be a trend with these mass killers. He is convinced he is Heath Ledger from the last Batman film. Any sensible contributions ?

The Heath Ledger bit that the gunman is "convinced he is" is probably just media hype or a comment from a shrink giving his opinion, as someone who was intelligent he probably felt frustrated by the whole "freinds/The hills" culture where everyone is perfect and the only real issue in life is should I have my sports car in red or blue, I dont blame the yanks for going nuts, they are given guns and told by the media how to act, just a shame this country is going the same way, if I am honest and GB wasnt go down the same plug hole I would say fk them let the yanks kill each other they made their bed, just my opinion there is no fact here and I am sure some people will get the hump but thats what a forum is for

 

[Acker79]

We are not talking about prisons though are we? We are discussing what to do with a single mentally ill* / evil* (delete as applicable) mass murderer. It has been suggested that we put him in the most expensive secure hospital facility and study him in order to give him the opportunity to reflect on what he has done. I'm merely pointing out that I think society would be better off if we put the **** to hard labour.

But everything I said about prisons applies to secure mental health facilities.

 

[Acker79]

The Heath Ledger bit that the gunman is "convinced he is" is probably just media hype or a comment from a shrink giving his opinion, as someone who was intelligent he probably felt frustrated by the whole "freinds/The hills" culture where everyone is perfect and the only real issue in life is should I have my sports car in red or blue, I dont blame the yanks for going nuts, they are given guns and told by the media how to act, just a shame this country is going the same way, if I am honest and GB wasnt go down the same plug hole I would say fk them let the yanks kill each other they made their bed, just my opinion there is no fact here and I am sure some people will get the hump but thats what a forum is for

Red hair, body armour, arsenal of weapons - not the joker I've ever seen.

 

[Lokki 7]

But everything I said about prisons applies to secure mental health facilities.

Yes, yes I know but I'm trying to stay on topic. I don't disagree with you on that point. But the discussion on this particular individual is a fairly unique case. I blame El Pres for bringing WAR into the debate.

 

[Simster]

What an absolutely crap thread.

Well done [MENTION=3887]Uncle Spielberg[/MENTION] on somehow conjuring 5 or 6 pages of shite out of saying the square root of f*** all. Saying "there are no winners here" is no talking point at all. What next? Start a thread to inform NSC that placing a toddler in the fast lane of the M1 would be DANGEROUS?

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

There some absolutely cracking conspiracy theories doing the rounds. If I may quote a particularly good one:

There is already conjecture that James Holmes may have been involved in mind-altering neuroscience research and ended up becoming involved at a depth he never anticipated. His actions clearly show a strange detachment from reality, indicating he was not in his right mind. That can only typically be accomplished through drugs, hypnosis or trauma (and sometimes all three).

In other words, this guy was equipped with exotic gear by someone with connections to military equipment. SWAT clothing, explosives, complex booby-traps... c'mon, this isn't a "lone gunman." This is somebody who was selected for a mission, given equipment to carry it out, then somehow brainwashed into getting it done.

This has all the signs of Fast & Furious, Episode II. I wouldn't be surprised to discover someone in Washington was behind it all. After all, there's no quicker way to disarm a nation and take total control over the population than to stage violence, blame it on firearms, then call for leaders to "do something!" Such calls inevitably end up resulting in gun confiscation, and it's never too long after that before government genocide really kicks in like we saw with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and other tyrants.

 

[Surrey_Albion]

Red hair, body armour, arsenal of weapons - not the joker I've ever seen.

Sorry was that meant to be sarcastic?? the joker (as the gunman was a massive fan,apparently) always had green hair, the other are just what any nut job carrying out a mental shooting spree would have
The Americans will lap this up as their media start naming it the joker killing etc, probably be a film about it by the end off the week and whole thing will be glorifyed and then replicated because someone saw that film!!!

 

[Acker79]

Sorry was that meant to be sarcastic?? the joker (as the gunman was a massive fan,apparently) always had green hair, the other are just what any nut job carrying out a mental shooting spree would have
The Americans will lap this up as their media start naming it the joker killing etc, probably be a film about it by the end off the week and whole thing will be glorifyed and then replicated because someone saw that film!!!

I was agreeing with your sentiment that he isn't so much trying to be the joker as the media are trying to make out like he was, pointing out how inaccurate his "portayal" of a character he is supposedly a big fan of was. Really, if he was trying to mimic the joker he wouldn't get something as basic as the hair colour wrong. It is all press hype.

 

[Surrey_Albion]

I was agreeing with your sentiment that he isn't so much trying to be the joker as the media are trying to make out like he was, pointing out how inaccurate his "portayal" of a character he is supposedly a big fan of was. Really, if he was trying to mimic the joker he wouldn't get something as basic as the hair colour wrong. It is all press hype.

Apologies Acker,wasnt having a pop at you