[Music] The “cultural” boycott of Isreal

[Herr Tubthumper]

What are people’s thoughts on this? Nick Cave recently had most of his shows picketed due to adding two Tel Aviv dates. He was pretty scathing of folk like Brian Eno, Roger Waters who he said “bullied” artists. They’ve now hit back. And a festival here received just 500 euros in funding from the Israeli arts ministry which resulted in a huge back lash with 10 artists pulling out as a result. A good friend of mine had organised a talk and panel discussion at this same festival to discuss female representation in the music industry and had a load of grief and pressure from the BDS but ultimately stuck to their guns (although one person pulled out) and did the talk. To be fair none of the people I know felt bullied or intimidated though.

 

[pastafarian]

Boycotts of any variety (as opposed to the concept of official sanctions) in the serious context of the Middle East is just more of the same old bullshit that leads to people not being able to sensibly talk about resolving their differences.
Unhelpful.

 

[Triggaaar]

Boycotts of any variety (as opposed to the concept of official sanctions) in the serious context of the Middle East is just more of the same old bullshit that leads to people not being able to sensibly talk about resolving their differences.
Unhelpful.

Boycotts helped end apartheid.

 

[pastafarian]

Boycotts helped end apartheid.

Thats South Africa, i was clear about the context of the Middle East......incredibly complex.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Thats South Africa, i was clear about the context of the Middle East......incredibly complex.

On the face of it South Africa did seem easier, but what areas do you feel are more complex regarding the Middle East?

 

[portlock seagull]

No other race on earth has been persecuted throughout the ages for such irrational reasons than the Jewish faith. Who can blame them now they’ve got their own turf if they don’t exactly play by the rulebook. The Middle East is where most of the worlds main religions collide, it’ll never be harmonious. Even a single faith can find plenty to fallout about.

 

[Jesus Gul]

I’d like to travel around Israel. Closest I got was Aqaba across the Red Sea from Eilat. Strange seeing Hebrew signs in the Jordanian tourist areas such as Petra but Jordan/Israel are relatively friendly.

 

[pastafarian]

On the face of it South Africa did seem easier, but what areas do you feel are more complex regarding the Middle East?

Surely you only need to glance at a history book when comparing SA and the Middle East to realise the Middle East is far more complex than SA ever was

 

[portlock seagull]

Surely you only need to glance at a history book when comparing SA and the Middle East to realise the Middle East is far more complex than SA ever was

Ain’t that understatement of the day!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Surely you only need to glance at a history book when comparing SA and the Middle East to realise the Middle East is far more complex than SA ever was

For sure, but we all have our own interpretations, versions and spin on history as we do with boycotts. I know what I think but I’m interested in other views....hence I’m asking what you think. Why don’t you think a boycott will succeed? Why do the complexities negate any boycott?

 

[soistes]

While I think that many aspects of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians are horrendous, I don't support the cultural boycott of Israel (or indeed the parallel academic boycott which exists in the universities).

The main reason for this is that, for all its faults, Israel is a real democracy, and there is a large part of Israeli society which is also supportive of a different approach to the Palestine question. Unlike in South Africa (which was not a proper democracy, and where the ANC and other black activists supported and wanted the international boycotts, if I remember correctly) the Israeli opposition and pro-Palestine groups (including many Israeli arabs) do not, for the most part, support these boycotts, because they believe that they are counterproductive, strengthen the hard line Israeli right wing, and actually reduce the pro-Palestinian groups' ability to fight their corner within Israel and win over Israeli public opinion through democratic means. So unlike in South Africa, I think it's better for international artists, academics and others to engage (critically) with Israel, rather than go for an all-out boycott, which just further polarises things.

 

[pastafarian]

For sure, but we all have our own interpretations, versions and spin on history as we do with boycotts. I know what I think but I’m interested in other views....hence I’m asking what you think. Why don’t you think a boycott will succeed? Why do the complexities negate any boycott?

Because the complexities of the whole region in general are ingrained over thousands of years of conflict of city states, then regions, then Empires, then religion, then inter religion conflict.
The area is divided yet linked through millennia of mutual history.
A boycott of purely Israel is too simplistic to solve this age old problem when the difficulties extend out to a far wider area.
If a boycott of Israel is the best solution people can come up with in regard to the Middle East then the region is screwed forever.......i dont pretend to have the answer either.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm trying to think of a similar situation where near neighbours of a dominant country were suppressed, rose up, became terrorists, were involved in a famous massacre, became even more violent terrorists, were interred, started secret talks and were eventually able to declare peace and have a power sharing agreement, all without a boycott, but it's gone. If only there was such an example......

 

[timbha]

I'm trying to think of a similar situation where near neighbours of a dominant country were suppressed, rose up, became terrorists, were involved in a famous massacre, became even more violent terrorists, were interred, started secret talks and were eventually able to declare peace and have a power sharing agreement, all without a boycott, but it's gone. If only there was such an example......

Sussex/Surrey?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

While I think that many aspects of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians are horrendous, I don't support the cultural boycott of Israel (or indeed the parallel academic boycott which exists in the universities).

The main reason for this is that, for all its faults, Israel is a real democracy, and there is a large part of Israeli society which is also supportive of a different approach to the Palestine question. Unlike in South Africa (which was not a proper democracy, and where the ANC and other black activists supported and wanted the international boycotts, if I remember correctly) the Israeli opposition and pro-Palestine groups (including many Israeli arabs) do not, for the most part, support these boycotts, because they believe that they are counterproductive, strengthen the hard line Israeli right wing, and actually reduce the pro-Palestinian groups' ability to fight their corner within Israel and win over Israeli public opinion through democratic means. So unlike in South Africa, I think it's better for international artists, academics and others to engage (critically) with Israel, rather than go for an all-out boycott, which just further polarises things.

Indeed and you've only got to look at Beram and Tomer to see that Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs do, for the most part, get on well together.

 

[vegster]

On the face of it South Africa did seem easier, but what areas do you feel are more complex regarding the Middle East?

The Middle East has a mix of Hebrews ,Muslims and Christians all fighting for the same patch of land and the right to exist to ( It sometimes seems ) the exclusion of the others. South Africa was a nation united against minority white rule so a tad simpler. South Africa was incredibly lucky that Mandella managed to keep the more revenge minded of the ANC mostly in check so they enjoyed a transition without a bloodbath.

 

[vegster]

Probably easier to sort out Middle Earth than the Middle East.

 

[Triggaaar]

Thats South Africa, i was clear about the context of the Middle East......incredibly complex.

But the thread isn't about sorting out every problem in the Middle East, it was just about Israel. People boycott Israel due to the occupied territories and their treatment of Palestinians.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

I guess talking about isreal, isfake news.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

[pastafarian]

But the thread isn't about sorting out every problem in the Middle East, it was just about Israel. People boycott Israel due to the occupied territories and their treatment of Palestinians.

OK, you stick to Israel then
Doesnt bother me