The bigger ****. Hunt or Grayling?

[1066familyman]

I would love to believe that Labour has something to offer the public in general rather than the Corbynites but every time you think they might be seeing the big picture, Corbin himself pulls the rug out from under himself. Yesterday, for example, he talked about a wages cap, which would be easily got round,instead of the much simpler reversal of the Tory tax cuts for the wealthy.

John Rentoul of The Independent suggested a policy angle which would surely be a winner for Labour - that the referendum result was a vote for more spending on the NHS. Boris's bus said so. That keeps him away from immigration, where he's dangerously at odds with Labour voters north of London, but gives him an unanswerable stick with which to beat the Torres. But that's far too sensible for the present Labour leadership.

With respect, that's all complete bollox.

The Labour party fought the last election with the NHS as their key issue. That didn't work because most voters know the NHS is a bottomless pit in terms of funding and no party, not even the Tories, would ever dare to completely dismantle it.

Labour were quiet on Housing, quiet on immigration, quiet on zero hour contracts, quiet on austerity, quiet on the general Tory race to the bottom and growing wealth inequality. They paid for that silence and no amount of talk about the NHS was ever going to win them anything.

But yes, let Corbyn just concentrate on the NHS

 

[soistes]

People like you, are why the middle ground are dis-interested in politics. .

I think you mean "uninterested" as, when it comes to politics, the middle ground are anything but "disinterested"
http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/disinterested-versus-uninterested.
You can say what you like about Herr Tubthumper, but he does at least have a basic grasp of GCSE-level English from what I've seen.

 

[vegster]

Hunt without a doubt but the most destructive and harmful agent against the NHS has always been the monstrous PFI deals made in the early to mid years of the Blair government. There should be retrospective action taken against all the PFI deals in my opinion. They were clear sleight of hand and the likes of Alan Johnson should be made to pay for his crimes.

Isn't Hinckley Point C effectively a PFI too?

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

This article from the Independent puts the average cost of all PFIs at nearer £10Bn a year and rising. (Presumably that includes the £3bn NHS costs but this appears to be rising too).

Basically, a PFI is like a mortgage that the government takes out on behalf of the public. The average annual cost of meeting the terms of the UK’s PFI contracts will be more than £10bn over the next decade. And the cost of servicing PFIs is growing. Last year, it rose by £5bn. It could rise further, with inflation. The upward creep is the price taxpayers’ pay for a financing system which allows private firms to profit from investing in infrastructure.

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/...als-leave-britain-222bn-in-debt-10170214.html

Article by the telegraph suggests it's 2bn a year.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/11748960/The-PFI-hospitals-costing-NHS-2bn-every-year.html

 

[Two Professors]

The major thing cocking up the NHS at the moment is not lack of funding or the Tories,it's totally incompetent Health Trusts.They employ people who I wouldn't trust to organise a church fete,and when they're found out,they move them sideways into another job.That dreadful woman from Sussex mental health is a classic example.Staffordshire NHS has been in crisis for many years now,but no-one ever resigns,they just move jobs,croneyism and nepotism to the n-th degree.The NHS has marvellous front line staff,billions of pounds worth of state of the art equipment,with camaraderie rarely found outside of the armed forces,led by absolute muppets.The politicians don't even get anywhere close-Grayling.

 

[cjd]

You can say what you like about Herr Tubthumper, .

Oh thank you so much.

So can I take it that it is OK to say he is nothing less than the biggest whinger on this forum. He has the ability to criticise anything and everything....(except of course his beloved Germany).

As I mentioned earlier, he is just one of lifes scumbags, that is happy moaning and belittling others.

 

[soistes]

Oh thank you so much.

So can I take it that it is OK to say he is nothing less than the biggest whinger on this forum. He has the ability to criticise anything and everything....(except of course his beloved Germany).

As I mentioned earlier, he is just one of lifes scumbags, that is happy moaning and belittling others.

Whereas, by contrast, you seem a pretty reasonable and temperate chap, not given to berating or denigrating others?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Oh thank you so much.

So can I take it that it is OK to say he is nothing less than the biggest whinger on this forum. He has the ability to criticise anything and everything....(except of course his beloved Germany).

As I mentioned earlier, he is just one of lifes scumbags, that is happy moaning and belittling others.

You've now called me a nobody and a scumbag. What is wrong with you? I merely suggested that with the issues with certain things in the Uk there might be big problems further down the line. So why this quite bizarre, over the top and personal abuse? I really don't mind this abuse, I'm big enough and ugly enough to handle it. But the very excessive and specific nature of it does make you look, at best, a little bit weird and unstable.

And yes I do criticise the country's politics. I oppose them so you should expect me to. But to suggest all I do is winge and moan is totally over looking my numerous interests which I champion and which are displayed in my running thread, beer and burger threads and my contributions to the restaurant, music and gig threads............. and of course my beloved country of residence

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

You've now called me a nobody and a scumbag. What is wrong with you? I merely suggested that with the issues with certain things in the Uk there might be big problems further down the line. So why this quite bizarre, over the top and personal abuse? I really don't mind this abuse, I'm big enough and ugly enough to handle it. But the very excessive and specific nature of it does make you look, at best, a little bit weird and unstable.

And yes I do criticise the country's politics. I oppose them so you should expect me to. But to suggest all I do is winge and moan is totally over looking my numerous interests which I champion and which are displayed in my running thread, beer and burger threads and my contributions to the restaurant, music and gig threads.

Call me Mr Over Sensitive but I don't think he likes you much!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Call me Mr Over Sensitive but I don't think he likes you much!

I think you're reading too much into his posts

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Hunt, Grayling is just incompetent.

This. If I ran a business and Hunt was working for me and treating my workforce like that, I would have sacked him ages ago.

 

[El Presidente]

Call me Mr Over Sensitive but I don't think he likes you much!

Compared to [MENTION=4790]cjd[/MENTION] on the subject of Ken Brown, the former Albion CEO, his opinion on Herr T is positively brotherly love.

 

[El Presidente]

Hunt without a doubt but the most destructive and harmful agent against the NHS has always been the monstrous PFI deals made in the early to mid years of the Blair government. There should be retrospective action taken against all the PFI deals in my opinion. They were clear sleight of hand and the likes of Alan Johnson should be made to pay for his crimes.

I'm with you totally on PFI. Had to be said the ********sfrom the accountants and investment banks who devised these schemes are just as culpable.

There's going to be a similar issue with student loans. The government effectively outsourced them so they don't appear as part of government debt.......until they are written off, which occurs after 25 years.

Currently about 40% of student loans are not being repaid. It's creating a huge snowball that someone will have to deal with, but not until the 2030's.

Politicians on both sides are culpable, Blair for introducing tuition fees and Cameron for upping them to £9k a year.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

 

[Easy 10]

Nobody will ever convince me the NHS is underfunded. It is the most HUMUNGUS cash cow in the country, but it gets systematically milked by middle-to-upper management and directors day in, day out. They absolutely bleed that system dry with the placement fees involved in shifting them around, the obscene salaries, the index linked pensions, and the golden handshakes when they eventually fvck off. I've seen it.

Anyone who says "pay an extra fiver a month and it'll all be sorted" has a drastic and fundamental misunderstanding of where our money actually goes. It doesn't reach the front line. It never will. It goes to the penpushing executives. THATS the crisis in the NHS - but it'll never be addressed, because the people who make the decisions are alright, Jack.

Fact.

 

[glasfryn]

hospital ...........last night BBC2
if you did not watch it worth a watch

 

[spring hall convert]

This. If I ran a business and Hunt was working for me and treating my workforce like that, I would have sacked him ages ago.

Unless of course you wanted him to treat the workforce like that because you were ideologically opposed to their existence.

 

[BLOCK F]

The job of Health Secretary is an impossible godforsaken task and will remain so until a Government of whatever hue has the balls to admit that the NHS is, in its present form, an unsustainable institution. One thing I am certain of is that continuing to throw money at the problem, will , in the long term solve nothing.
I would like to see the business of 'reconstructing' the way healthcare is given and paid for in this country, to be 'depoliticised'. So much time and energy is wasted in ya-booing between political opponents and indeed, between medical unions and Government; for God's sake, let us put all this behind us and try and get the best brains from all interested parties to work together and plan sustainable healthcare in this country.
It is pretty straightforward to come up with what the major problems are, so that is a start; now please, can those in a position to do so, grow some balls , work together and start working on the solutions.
Personally, I think it is inevitable that ,at some time, maybe not too far in the future, individuals will have to make a more direct contribution to their healthcare, with provision for those who are especially vulnerable. This could take various forms, but I think it will be the right thing to do.

P.S. Hunt has an impossible job, but Grayling strikes me as a weak ineffective twot.
Additionally, as a Tory voter, the jury is out on Theresa May. I see little outward signs of leadership, and I truly don't know what she is on about most of the time. However, with no effective opposition, there is no-one to take her to task.

 

[Hastings gull]

The job of Health Secretary is an impossible godforsaken task and will remain so until a Government of whatever hue has the balls to admit that the NHS is, in its present form, an unsustainable institution. One thing I am certain of is that continuing to throw money at the problem, will , in the long term solve nothing.
I would like to see the business of 'reconstructing' the way healthcare is given and paid for in this country, to be 'depoliticised'. So much time and energy is wasted in ya-booing between political opponents and indeed, between medical unions and Government; for God's sake, let us put all this behind us and try and get the best brains from all interested parties to work together and plan sustainable healthcare in this country.
It is pretty straightforward to come up with what the major problems are, so that is a start; now please, can those in a position to do so, grow some balls , work together and start working on the solutions.
Personally, I think it is inevitable that ,at some time, maybe not too far in the future, individuals will have to make a more direct contribution to their healthcare, with provision for those who are especially vulnerable. This could take various forms, but I think it will be the right thing to do.

P.S. Hunt has an impossible job, but Grayling strikes me as a weak ineffective twot.
Additionally, as a Tory voter, the jury is out on Theresa May. I see little outward signs of leadership, and I truly don't know what she is on about most of the time. However, with no effective opposition, there is no-one to take her to task.

Good post and it would be really good if some folk would not use the NHS as a battering ram to attack their political opponents. The annual problems at winter time have been manifesting themselves for so long, and every time, out they come from the woodwork to criticise. As ever the cry is to simply spend more and if a fortune was put in tomorrow, does anyone seriously think that would stop the clamour for ever more money. If we accept that hospital treatment is there for all, irrespective of income, and use that as the starting point, then perhaps collectively we can think of a better way of providing health care. Lets face it - they do on the continent, and I know that in Germany they do not suffer the delays and problems that we do. But it may well mean that proportionately, we may all have to contribute more, and not just an extra fiver, into, say, a personal insurance fund, rather than into general taxation.

 

[TheJasperCo]

I don't think it will ever be possible to take the politics out of the health service, in whatever form it takes. It's just one of those domestic issues that will always take centre ground in any debate between parties - like the economy, welfare, education and defence. There is no one simple answer, no single solution that can turn things around in a few months. Throwing money in its general direction, without knowing where the money is going or what exactly you hope to achieve, smacks of desperation and naivety.

I'm young and healthy, thank god. For now. But at my age, with no private health cover to fall back on, it is still in my interests to be aware of the issues facing the NHS as anyone else. Look at our Health Service we shouted with pride, a beacon of inspiration revered the world over. Free at the point of access, once upon a time. Problem is, the quality and care is not up to par. Whether that's because of staff shortages, underfunding and poor investment, growing populations... I don't know.