[Albion] The BIG keeper debate

[Bozza]

Just pick one to be the number one, or keep rotating.

What would you do?

 

[Biscuit Barrel]

Neither are good enough imho.

If you could combine them both, you might have a decent shot stopper who is also good with their feet.

 

[Littlemo]

I picked having an identified number one. I actually think rotation is a good idea but each keeper needs a much longer run of games together than they are getting, and having a number one is the closest option to that.

 

[Mustafa II]

Time to go all in with Verbruggen now. He's the future.

Fans need to be patient when he makes mistakes, like the rest of our young players do & will.

But with Bart, it's important to remember he'll win us point as well, through making saves that Steele could not.

 

[Mustafa II]

Neither are good enough imho.

If you could combine them both, you might have a decent shot stopper who is also good with their feet.

Do you think it's more likely that Steele would learn to become a better shot stopper, or that Verbruggen will learn to improve with the ball at his feet?

Of course it's a rhetorical question, but that's why the answer to this debate is so obvious.

Verbruggen is actually pretty good with the ball at his feet - it's just that we're comparing him to Steele who has been exceptional. But Bart can learn this. He's already noticeably improved somewhat in the short time he's been here.

 

[stewart12]

think ultimately we should be patient with Bart and accept that he's young and will make a few errors. But he'll only get to the point that we need him to get to by playing games.

I like Steele a lot, he's a great pro with a fantastic attitude so I can see why De Zerbi likes him....and whilst he's great on the ball he's not at the level that we need in terms of the rest of his game

 

[Guinness Boy]

Time to stick with one for the rest of the season, unless they get injured, though the other should play FA Cup games.

I tend to agree with @Biscuit Barrel that neither is quite good enough with BV being a better shot stopper and JS being much better with his feet. However, the defence is unsettled enough with injuries without them having to make allowances for a different keeper every two or three games.

It's De Zerbi's choice at the end of the day, but if he picks Verbruggen then he needs to stick with him and not whinge about our club policy of playing youngsters. After last night I'd personally rather he stuck with Steele.

 

[RandyWanger]

Time to go all in on Bart. He just needs time to improve his reading of the game and decision-making.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Amidst the understandable focus on Bart's mistake last night, its important to remember that there are lots of ways for a keeper to give a goal away. Bart's poor pass obviously led to a goal so will get all the attention, but actually Dean Henderson was the much shakier of the two keepers last night, and made many more mistakes than he did. Henderson dropped a simple cross in his six yard box then fumbled it trying to recover, spilled a simple shot out in front of himself, and made the comedy weak punch into Welbeck's face - any of which statistically were probably more likely to lead to a goal than Bart's poor pass.

Also - please do remember that Bart's only mistake in that horror goal, was to underhit that clipped pass. The rest of it - showing for the ball when Groß needed an outlet, taking a touch when he got it, turning back onto his left with the striker right on him - is what he has been TOLD to do.

 

[The Colonel]

Pick Jason Steele. Don't rotate.

 

[Mellotron]

Amidst the understandable focus on Bart's mistake last night, its important to remember that there are lots of ways for a keeper to give a goal away. Bart's poor pass obviously led to a goal so will get all the attention, but actually Dean Henderson was the much shakier of the two keepers last night, and made many more mistakes than he did. Henderson dropped a simple cross in his six yard box then fumbled it trying to recover, spilled a simple shot out in front of himself, and made the comedy weak punch into Welbeck's face - any of which statistically were probably more likely to lead to a goal than Bart's poor pass.

Also - please do remember that Bart's only mistake in that horror goal, was to underhit that clipped pass. The rest of it - showing for the ball when Groß needed an outlet, taking a touch when he got it, turning back onto his left with the striker right on him - is what he has been TOLD to do.

And mildly in his defence - whilst he shouldn't have turned when he did IMO - he really didn't have that many options. That's on the outfield players.

 

[Weststander]

Nothing to do with last night, I just really rate Steele.

The dig that he’s a not a shot-stopper is plain silly.

 

[beorhthelm]

Amidst the understandable focus on Bart's mistake last night, its important to remember that there are lots of ways for a keeper to give a goal away. Bart's poor pass obviously led to a goal so will get all the attention, but actually Dean Henderson was the much shakier of the two keepers last night, and made many more mistakes than he did. Henderson dropped a simple cross in his six yard box then fumbled it trying to recover, spilled a simple shot out in front of himself, and made the comedy weak punch into Welbeck's face - any of which statistically were probably more likely to lead to a goal than Bart's poor pass.

Also - please do remember that Bart's only mistake in that horror goal, was to underhit that clipped pass. The rest of it - showing for the ball when Groß needed an outlet, taking a touch when he got it, turning back onto his left with the striker right on him - is what he has been TOLD to do.

they need to recognise when the press trap is on, it's working (they have no options) and the outlet is to leather it up field or out of play. you cant always play it out.

 

[peterward]

Just pick one to be the number one, or keep rotating.

What would you do?

Buy another keeper!

 

[Guinness Boy]

Amidst the understandable focus on Bart's mistake last night, its important to remember that there are lots of ways for a keeper to give a goal away. Bart's poor pass obviously led to a goal so will get all the attention, but actually Dean Henderson was the much shakier of the two keepers last night, and made many more mistakes than he did. Henderson dropped a simple cross in his six yard box then fumbled it trying to recover, spilled a simple shot out in front of himself, and made the comedy weak punch into Welbeck's face - any of which statistically were probably more likely to lead to a goal than Bart's poor pass.

Also - please do remember that Bart's only mistake in that horror goal, was to underhit that clipped pass. The rest of it - showing for the ball when Groß needed an outlet, taking a touch when he got it, turning back onto his left with the striker right on him - is what he has been TOLD to do.

It's his second similar ricket though, the Bournemouth one was just as bad.

Like I said, he is a better shot stopper than Steele. However, last season when we really got going we had a really good distributor (Steele) passing to a really good central pivot (Caicedo). Having neither simply waters down a tactic from breaking the press to actually fannying around.

If we are to stick with BV, which would be the forward thinking choice, we simply have to sign an oven ready pivot / DM in January and a fullback or two. If we're going to have Baleba / Gross / Gilmour as CDM and Igor and Hinshelwood as the wide receivers it absolutely HAS to be Steele playing.

 

[GT49er]

Chopping and changing. Ongoing uncertainty. Disagreement among NSCers over who should be the no.1 if we stop chopping and changing. I sometimes wonder what we have actually gained from the decision to dump Sanchez in the first place.

 

[rippleman]

Just posted on the "fannying about at the back" thread


OK, so I'm going to say it. When it comes to "fannying about at the back" give me Steele over Bart every day of the week. For me Steele is far more confident and capable. Is Steele a better all-round keeper? Probably not. But until Bart has got the experience (because confidence and capability will grow with experience) I would ditch the keeper rotation. Play Steele in the EPL and let Bart grow through playing in Europe and the FA Cup.

 

[Krafty]

they need to recognise when the press trap is on, it's working (they have no options) and the outlet is to leather it up field or out of play. you cant always play it out.

This is what Verbruggen needs to work on, decision-making, as that is why we are conceding goals such as against Palace yesterday.

If he can make quicker and better decisions, with his feet, then I really believe he can go far and be a great keeper for us - he is almost there.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Chopping and changing. Ongoing uncertainty. Disagreement among NSCers over who should be the no.1 if we stop chopping and changing. I sometimes wonder what we have actually gained from the decision to dump Sanchez in the first place.

Given that he wouldn't follow RDZ's instructions, was often late, sulked massively and has been woefully, comically bad for Chelsea, I reckon you could say we have.

 

[peterward]

Nothing to do with last night, I just really rate Steele.

The dig that he’s a not a shot-stopper is plain silly.

You made the point last night, that it was a vendetta against him, that shots he should save havent really gone through him, and maybe its based on prejudices due to his issues at Sunderland etc.... I very rarely disagree with you my friend, but I really do on Steele with the gloves.

He is probably my second favourite player at club after Dunk, I love him as a man, he's humble, does a lot for the club/community and is an all round top bloke. Truth be told, I would love Steele to be number 1 over Bart based on who he is as a person, and he may be the very best in the PL at playing with his feet?

But there have been a Good few goals imho, that he should've saved and certainly appear to go though him or be near enough that you'd expect a different outcome from a good PL keeper. That's no vendetta, it's being objective at what you see.

It's a thankless task being a keeper, mistakes like last night are costly and magnified, but I do genuinely believe that Steele isn't that great/upper PL with his general glovework/shot stopping (he's not totally shit either), it's his top character and ball playing that earn him starts and inspite of, not because of, his glove work.

You may not agree with that, thats cool, and if hes your number 1, I respect you more than most, but there's no vendetta against a fantastic human being nor does anything that happened at Sunderland (which is irrelevent) come into my own subjective opinion.

I can't work out which one is best overall as I see positives and weakness in both.