The Albion LOST £140,000 a week in the last season at Withdean

[*Gullsworth*]

I'm saying is during a recession you'd want your money somewhere that's almost certainly going to be guaranteed, rather than a gamble. Would it be a success if Brighton were relegated to League 2. The gamble might have back fired. Fortunately it hasn't. But there have been plenty of people that have put money into football clubs, property and the like and the gamble hasn't paid off.

Our Tony is a gambler though, and rumour has it he is very good!

 

[Aadam]

Our Tony is a gambler though, and rumour has it he is very good!

Point taken.

 

[El Presidente]

Disagree completely, Amex Ground is an asset, was always going to be a success in the beginning. I bet the Ground is held separate from the club just in case.

I don't want to appear rude, but that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen on NSC.

The ground is worthless in it's own right, it is only fit for one purpose, and it relates to an operational business in a high risk industry and has not made a profit for 40 years.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

I don't want to appear rude, but that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen on NSC.

The ground is worthless in it's own right, it is only fit for one purpose, and it relates to an operational business in a high risk industry and has not made a profit for 40 years.

Doubt very much its going to be one purpose El Pres, I didn't think we were having concerts and the dining and parties when the ground was proposed but we are and I suspect subject to planning other projects will coma about even if its community stuff that will be rented/ leased out.

Time will tell if I'm wrong, but if I am then TB must have a lot more money if he can afford to blow it all on a one purpose site.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I don't want to appear rude, but that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen on NSC.

The ground is worthless in it's own right, it is only fit for one purpose, and it relates to an operational business in a high risk industry and has not made a profit for 40 years.

Isn't it worth something if it was demolished and turned into a retail park

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Isn't it worth something if it was demolished and turned into a retail park

Ouch!

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Doubt very much its going to be one purpose El Pres, I didn't think we were having concerts and the dining and parties when the ground was proposed but we are and I suspect subject to planning other projects will coma about even if its community stuff that will be rented/ leased out.

Time will tell if I'm wrong, but if I am then TB must have a lot more money if he can afford to blow it all on a one purpose site.

Maximum of 50 outside events per annum, not more than 2 may be concerts; there are numerous restrictions.
Flexible, internal function use was clearly intended in the planning applications that the Govt and B&HCC approved.

 

[Davey Boy Smith]

Don't forget these results are for the period 1 July 2010 to 30 June 2011, i.e. before the club saw a majority of the income generated with the move to the Amex.

Like everyone else has already mentioned this is a really interesting thread and brings home the fact the club would have died if it hadn't have got Falmer - no ifs no buts.

Just a question probably for the accountants amongst you... Given the reporting period includes the phase some of the initial DDs and deposits for Season tickets would have been paid would this be included within these Accounts? Clearly they would show on the Cashflow chart but would this income be accounted for in these accounts or as in effect the goods were partially paid for upfront is it built into the revenue for the current Financial Year ending 30 June 2012?

 

[El Presidente]

Like everyone else has already mentioned this is a really interesting thread and brings home the fact the club would have died if it hadn't have got Falmer - no ifs no buts.

Just a question probably for the accountants amongst you... Given the reporting period includes the phase some of the initial DDs and deposits for Season tickets would have been paid would this be included within these Accounts? Clearly they would show on the Cashflow chart but would this income be accounted for in these accounts or as in effect the goods were partially paid for upfront is it built into the revenue for the current Financial Year ending 30 June 2012?

If you go to notes 16 and 17 of the accounts, you will come to the creditors note, and in that note is a heading called 'Accruals and deferred income'. This included monies the Albion have received but not yet treated as sales, so a large part of this will be in relation to money received from STH in respect of DD's paid. This comes to a total of about £7.86 million if you add the two creditors notes together.

It also includes I suspect the deposits paid by 1901'ers who have paid an upfront fee which will be released to the profit and loss account over a period of years.

 

[El Presidente]

Doubt very much its going to be one purpose El Pres, I didn't think we were having concerts and the dining and parties when the ground was proposed but we are and I suspect subject to planning other projects will coma about even if its community stuff that will be rented/ leased out.

Time will tell if I'm wrong, but if I am then TB must have a lot more money if he can afford to blow it all on a one purpose site.

But the site is not worth £90 million if used for a few office parties and a couple of gigs from Fatboy or Rizzle Kicks.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But the site is not worth £90 million if used for a few office parties and a couple of gigs from Fatboy or Rizzle Kicks.

It may not be worth that sort of money but the stadium is earning money all the time aside from the football. It costs over £300 just for a kids birthday party. There are numerous Wedding Fayres, Baby Exhibitions etc booked, weddings and conference functions besides the Christmas office parties.

 

[Weststander]

I doubt whether we will ever be an orthodox business model, balancing our books and showing a profit etc etc.

The increase revenue streams are likely to just plug the likely continued losses.

My view is that unless we actually make the Premiership and then succeed then we will continue to show losses, propped up by TB and associates.

Remember there is always a chance that finally TB becomes rather disillusioned with not progressing whilst spending shed-loads and after a few manager's have gratuitously wasting £millions of his money on misfiring striker's and midfield enforcer's when TB finally concede that there is no point continuing wasting his money without progression.

He then asks his accountants to get stuck into his footballing accounts, cutting wage bill's etc and finally making our team less competitive.

Its not meant to be a pessimistic view as the next few years are going to be exciting, but only time will tell if we get the success that will propel us to the big time and allow the business model to be sustainable.

But for now I look forward to continued progression and excitement, thanks to TB.

So if the club turnover was £7m, and now it's £25m to £30m, where's the £10m's of extra annual running costs come from?

(And remember transfer fee costs, which have been low since for a club of our new size, are spread over several years of the contract, and capital project costs are capitalised with little effect on profit).

I expect the 2011/12 and 2012/13 accounts to show break even or profit.

 

[Weststander]

If you go to notes 16 and 17 of the accounts, you will come to the creditors note, and in that note is a heading called 'Accruals and deferred income'. This included monies the Albion have received but not yet treated as sales, so a large part of this will be in relation to money received from STH in respect of DD's paid. This comes to a total of about £7.86 million if you add the two creditors notes together.

It also includes I suspect the deposits paid by 1901'ers who have paid an upfront fee which will be released to the profit and loss account over a period of years.

To complete the answer re future season ticket sales received in an earlier year.

In the Cash Flow Statement, they are treated as an increase in creditors.

They are only released in:
The P&L account to the season or seasons to which they relate; and
In future seasons Cash Flow Statements, they are a decrease in creditors.

 

[Weststander]

I don't want to appear rude, but that is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen on NSC.

The ground is worthless in it's own right, it is only fit for one purpose, and it relates to an operational business in a high risk industry and has not made a profit for 40 years.

Fixed assets on the balance sheet aren't shown at open market value, which would be lower, as there would only be one taker.

Instead, the capitalised cost of buildings and lease premiums, is written of over useful life of the stadium making the near-universal assumption that the club is a going concern, with lease premiums written off over their term.

 

[Aadam]

So if the club turnover was £7m, and now it's £25m to £30m, where's the £10m's of extra annual running costs come from?

(And remember transfer fee costs, which have been low since for a club of our new size, are spread over several years of the contract, and capital project costs are capitalised with little effect on profit).

I expect the 2011/12 and 2012/13 accounts to show break even or profit.

For a start running the Amex is going to be a LOT more costly than the Withdean. Staff numbers are huge now. Plus £35m of operating losses are carried forward as per that financial report.

 

[El Presidente]

So if the club turnover was £7m, and now it's £25m to £30m, where's the £10m's of extra annual running costs come from?

(And remember transfer fee costs, which have been low since for a club of our new size, are spread over several years of the contract, and capital project costs are capitalised with little effect on profit).

I expect the 2011/12 and 2012/13 accounts to show break even or profit.

Increased players wages, huge increase in match day staff, maintenance of the ground, depreciation etc.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

But the site is not worth £90 million if used for a few office parties and a couple of gigs from Fatboy or Rizzle Kicks.

I do hear what you say El Pres and at present you are right but things including planning restrictions can be changed over time and who knows what it could be worth. I'm amazed we can go for an increase in capacity so quickly.

Who though TB would come up with so much money for the stadium in 2008 and how long ago was that planned?... We are so lucky to have him in these strange economic times

 

[BigGully]

So if the club turnover was £7m, and now it's £25m to £30m, where's the £10m's of extra annual running costs come from?

(And remember transfer fee costs, which have been low since for a club of our new size, are spread over several years of the contract, and capital project costs are capitalised with little effect on profit).

I expect the 2011/12 and 2012/13 accounts to show break even or profit.

I would look at it from an opposite perspective.

Where has money been spent to enable this extra revenue.

Next time your there, look at the expenditure, the fabulous stadium and the land, the car park, the wages that has offered some success, the day to day running costs to offer us a modern environment where we would like to spend time and our money.

The costs must be frightening, I was there today, there wasn't any real revenue being generated, but the expenditure was tangible, massive hardware being moved, staffing levels high and tradesman doing things and the car park basically empty, no real income.

If this was an out of town shopping super mall, which only offered one busy weekend every 2nd week whilst paying their retail staff exorbitant wages, it would never get built.

But football is different, its odd, wealthy businessmen enjoy the kudos, the adulation and some employ pseudo accountants like you to spew out terminology like Fixed assets, capitalisation and of course everyone's favourite 'write off's' ..... how we like to pretend costs just disappear ;-)

TB isn't stupid, he isnt expecting any great return, probably just some protection against catastrophic losses, its a lasting memorial and its based on his love of the club/town, if he can turn a profit then he is even a better businessman than we all thought.

 

[El Presidente]

But football is different, its odd, wealthy businessmen enjoy the kudos, the adulation and some employ pseudo accountants like you to spew out terminology like Fixed assets, capitalisation and of course everyone's favourite 'write off's' ..... how we like to pretend costs just disappear ;-)

What do you mean by 'pseudo accountants like you'?

 

[BigGully]

What do you mean by 'pseudo accountants like you'?

That was aimed at Westander, that with respect trotted out the same accountancy drivel when trying to dismiss the obvious expenditure that blights most modern day football clubs.