[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*

[BadFish]

This is pretty much spot on.

Too many Brits think that because they've been to New York / DC / California they think they know and undertsand Americans and the States. Sneering down their noses at those who don't see the world through the same liberal glasses. Plenty of those on here.

I've spent some time in the flyover States and the people there, especially in rural areas feel left behind.

They feel that under Trump they will be better off, and safer.

Do you think they are right?

 

[sparkie]

Just the gradual creeping westwards of Russia. You happy with that?

To be fair if everyone just surrenders to Putin's jackboot and slavery there won't be war

 

[BadFish]

Well .... It's very early days , but the first prediction from the drama crazy press that massive unrest will boil over if either candidate wins hasn't transpired yet and I highly doubt it will. I wonder how many of the other doomsday predictions will happen?

Let's hope none of them come to pass and he is a roaring success for the world.

 

[Bry Nylon]

Apparently this doesn't matter though, as long as everyone feels good about it.

I desperately wanted Harris to win that election.

But I accept that she didn't because she did a poor job at communicating anything upbeat or optimistic. (Plus it didn't help that she is associated with a deeply unpopular Biden and nobody seems to be able to point out anything concrete that she's done in the last 4 years).

Perhaps I am being unfair, but it does seem like you are blaming the electorate rather than the candidate for delivering a result you are unhappy with.

To my mind, politics is about the business of doing stuff whilst political campaigning is about the business of selling stuff.

 

[The Lemming Stomper]

I've just voted for Donald Trump in the poll...

Taken my inspiration from the bets posted in the Tony Blooms horse running thread

 

[chickens]

Fair play to him. It’s clear that America has rejected the internationalist creed of the 1990s and 2000s.

They will re-onshore a lot of their manufacturing capability, and this will create jobs. Protectionism is back in fashion. What an awful time to have left your local trade bloc, rendering you a third party to absolutely EVERYONE, including your neighbours.

 

[jordanseagull]

Donald Trump repeats controversial ‘You won’t have to vote any more’ claim | Donald Trump | The Guardian

Republican presidential nominee denies threatening to stay in office after end of possible second term in Fox interview

amp.theguardian.com

He wants to be Putin. Mark my words, sooner or later in his term, there will be a totally organic *cough* “groundswell of support” for Trump to take an unprecedented third term.

And he'll convince Dem Senators to vote for this?

 

[Bozza]

Well .... It's very early days , but the first prediction from the drama crazy press that massive unrest will boil over if either candidate wins hasn't transpired yet and I highly doubt it will. I wonder how many of the other doomsday predictions will happen?

I didn't read that anywhere.

The only expectation I had was that if it were a narrow Harris win, Trump et al would have issued rallying cries which would have resulted in civil unrest, violence and likely death.

There was never going to be any unrest of note with a wide-margin victory, particularly for Trump. One side is capable of being gracious, if disappointed, losers.

 

[Eeyore]

I'm not surprised(see previous posts). There is clearly more to it. Most folks over there know what an awful man he is. For us it's bewildering, but for them it's a belief that things internally could get better.

 

[Chicken Run]

What is it about woke culture that you don't like?

I would imagine most folk that pre port to dislike Woke Culture probably dislike the people who are vociferous towards a Liberal line a whole lot more than the culture itself

 

[nicko31]

I was thinking of changing my footer if the Dems had won. But populism and post truth hasn't gone away, anyone with democratic ideals is going to have a fight on their hands in the years ahead

 

[beorhthelm]

I know 52% of Americans THINK he has been a disaster, but the reality is 2.8% growth, 4.1% unemployment, 2.4% inflation, falling interest rates and saving Ukraine from a Russian takeover might not be everything voters would have wished for but is hardly "a disaster", i.e. Liz Truss.

similar direction didnt help Conservative here either. it's all about perceptions, Trump focus on the recent negatives (inflation and interest rates were high), while the Harris didn't highlight the turnaround.

 

[dwayne]

I didn't read that anywhere.

The only expectation I had was that if it were a narrow Harris win, Trump et al would have issued rallying cries which would have resulted in civil unrest, violence and likely death.

There was never going to be any unrest of note with a wide-margin victory, particularly for Trump. One side is capable of being gracious, if disappointed, losers.

Well civil unrest was definitely planned for on either side although as you rightfully point out the far right was more likely to instigate trouble. As it was a whitewash in the end I guess the far left have just been beaten down for now.

 

[Zeberdi]

If you are an American in a small town that used to have a power plant / factory / car plant that most of the town worked in and brought prosperity and a comfortable existence to the town and it's people, and was shut down years ago due to globalisation / climate change policies, and now there are every few opportunities and a fairly miserable existence, then when someone comes along and tells you he will bring all that back and make things like they used to be, then surely you can see the attraction in that?

If you are an American in a small town in a pretty miserable existence who has never left your State, let alone the US and somebody comes along and says that rather than send £150 billion to a country you've never heard of in a far away continent you have never even considered visiting, he is going to invest that money back in the US in towns like yours to make your life prosperous again, can you really say you wouldn't be tempted to vote for that?

The fact is that America is not New York and Washington and San Francisco like we picture in the UK. Most of the country is much more like the scenarios described above. And I totally understand why people in that section of America would vote for Trump. In fact, it's blindingly obvious why they would. It's the same phenomenon with Brexit- people in well-to-do, wealthy and prosperous Sussex can't understand why somebody with a shit life in a dump like Hartlepool would vote for Brexit, because they are doing OK. But put yourself in those people's shoes and you would very likely have a different world view.

To be clear, I voted Remain, voted Labour in this year's election, and wanted Harris to win. But people here dismissing seventy million people as fat racist idiots for voting for Trump is just embarrassing.

I think Trump's win is a terrible result for Ukraine, and a pretty poor result for the UK and Europe. But for your average American? Not convinced it's a bad thing for them, and that is what people tend to vote on- how it will affect their individual lives.

Sadly, IMO, like Farage, Trump doesn’t give a shite about poor families and Blacks in small town rural America - otherwise he would have supported Medicare and would not have spent years making racist remarks about Black people - he doesn’t give a shite about small businesses or the working class otherwise he wouldn’t be advocating trade wars with China, the cost of which will be passed onto the American consumer. He doesn’t give a shite that his tax spend/cuts will increase the debt burden by $7.75 trillion. He doesn’t give a shite about the Democratic rights and civil liberties of women, immigrants and LBGBTs …. He has no regard for the rule of law or respect for the Constitution either but good luck America. He has convinced the majority that he cares about you and your lives will be peaceful and prosperous.

This is what happens when populations are vulnerable, poor and desperate for change …. it creates opportunity for autocrats and fascists to break through. I hope for Americans sake it doesn’t become that.

Many Americans are now celebrating today I’m sure and that just maybe all manner of things will be well but I know for my family a mix of Black, White, Jewish, and Christian living across 5 States in the US across a spectrum of wealth, the sound of Trump supporters celebrating is what ‘it sounds like when doves cry’ because despite the hardships and despite Trump being pro-Israel or pro-business etc they are decent, loving people who would never dream of putting an insurrectionist, convicted felon and serial sex offender in the WH no matter how many extra dollars he promised them.

 

[Stato]

But people here dismissing seventy million people as fat racist idiots for voting for Trump is just embarrassing.

The fat bit’s fair enough isn’t it? At least let us have the fat bit.

As @Bozza has indicated, this has been another pocketbook election. People felt the pinch and replaced Obama with Trump, Trump with Biden and Biden with Trump. They’ll still feel the pinch at the end of the next four years because capitalists, not presidents are doing this.

It’s not about stupidity, but it is about education. Most people know that they’re poorer than their parents were, but they don’t know the historical, economic and global political drivers that have led to this situation. Politicians make them promises and they choose who to trust. The isolationism sounds plausible because they’ve seen plants close and work move to other countries. What they don’t have is the spreadsheets that will explain to capitalists why this is in the interest of shareholders. If they did, they’d understand that no politician is going to stop it.

Marx was right in seeing that the infinite need for growth inherent in the capitalist model will eventually destroy it. He was wrong in thinking that humans realising this would change anything. The climate change denial is being funded by those who benefit most from the existing model and they’ve shown that, not even the realistic threat of the end of a liveable planet is enough to change their quest for short term wealth and power.

Keep cutting down the trees. We can never have enough giant stone heads.

 

[BadFish]

I desperately wanted Harris to win that election.

But I accept that she didn't because she did a poor job at communicating anything upbeat or optimistic. (Plus it didn't help that she is associated with a deeply unpopular Biden and nobody seems to be able to point out anything concrete that she's done in the last 4 years).

Perhaps I am being unfair, but it does seem like you are blaming the electorate rather than the candidate for delivering a result you are unhappy with.

To my mind, politics is about the business of doing stuff whilst political campaigning is about the business of selling stuff.

I am not really blaming the electorate. I was trying to understand why they have made this decision. Thanks to Commander and Dwayne I now understand this more clearly.

I especially understand the problems experienced by those in rural areas (it is similar in Australia), I also understand the disillusionment with regular politicians (I feel the same). What I still fail to understand is how people can see Trump as the solution, but I guess time will tell if I am right about this. It is time for him to step up and make good on his promises as far as I am concerned.

 

[Napper]

at least the meltdown is a bit amusing to watch , even if the result isnt amusing

 

[Shins]

If you are an American in a small town that used to have a power plant / factory / car plant that most of the town worked in and brought prosperity and a comfortable existence to the town and it's people, and was shut down years ago due to globalisation / climate change policies, and now there are every few opportunities and a fairly miserable existence, then when someone comes along and tells you he will bring all that back and make things like they used to be, then surely you can see the attraction in that?

If you are an American in a small town in a pretty miserable existence who has never left your State, let alone the US and somebody comes along and says that rather than send £150 billion to a country you've never heard of in a far away continent you have never even considered visiting, he is going to invest that money back in the US in towns like yours to make your life prosperous again, can you really say you wouldn't be tempted to vote for that?

The fact is that America is not New York and Washington and San Francisco like we picture in the UK. Most of the country is much more like the scenarios described above. And I totally understand why people in that section of America would vote for Trump. In fact, it's blindingly obvious why they would. It's the same phenomenon with Brexit- people in well-to-do, wealthy and prosperous Sussex can't understand why somebody with a shit life in a dump like Hartlepool would vote for Brexit, because they are doing OK. But put yourself in those people's shoes and you would very likely have a different world view.

To be clear, I voted Remain, voted Labour in this year's election, and wanted Harris to win. But people here dismissing seventy million people as fat racist idiots for voting for Trump is just embarrassing.

I think Trump's win is a terrible result for Ukraine, and a pretty poor result for the UK and Europe. But for your average American? Not convinced it's a bad thing for them, and that is what people tend to vote on- how it will affect their individual lives.

I get the rationale behind most of that. I'm not sure there's a single policy that has been outlined that is intended to directly improve the lives of the people you mention though. They have voted for an ideal / a promise that doesn't exist, because he doesn't care about those people. Saying 'make America great again' is not a policy and everything he has said he will do, will be to the detriment of that country. Those who voted Trump are blindly ignoring that fact.

Democrats have failed again, as have the media outlets who care, to reach them and educate them. I do understand that some sections of society may be so disaffected that it was impossible to reach them. What's sad is their disaffection would have included the four years of Trump Presidency that also did nothing for them.

The only hope is that they aren't caught in a very cult like web and can see in four years time he has done nothing for them, again, and to vote for change.

 

[dwayne]

If you are an American in a small town that used to have a power plant / factory / car plant that most of the town worked in and brought prosperity and a comfortable existence to the town and it's people, and was shut down years ago due to globalisation / climate change policies, and now there are every few opportunities and a fairly miserable existence, then when someone comes along and tells you he will bring all that back and make things like they used to be, then surely you can see the attraction in that?

If you are an American in a small town in a pretty miserable existence who has never left your State, let alone the US and somebody comes along and says that rather than send £150 billion to a country you've never heard of in a far away continent you have never even considered visiting, he is going to invest that money back in the US in towns like yours to make your life prosperous again, can you really say you wouldn't be tempted to vote for that?

The fact is that America is not New York and Washington and San Francisco like we picture in the UK. Most of the country is much more like the scenarios described above. And I totally understand why people in that section of America would vote for Trump. In fact, it's blindingly obvious why they would. It's the same phenomenon with Brexit- people in well-to-do, wealthy and prosperous Sussex can't understand why somebody with a shit life in a dump like Hartlepool would vote for Brexit, because they are doing OK. But put yourself in those people's shoes and you would very likely have a different world view.

To be clear, I voted Remain, voted Labour in this year's election, and wanted Harris to win. But people here dismissing seventy million people as fat racist idiots for voting for Trump is just embarrassing.

I think Trump's win is a terrible result for Ukraine, and a pretty poor result for the UK and Europe. But for your average American? Not convinced it's a bad thing for them, and that is what people tend to vote on- how it will affect their individual lives.

Don't forget the issues in California at the moment as well. Woke dem DAs got in like Gascon and allowed crime to be rampant. Career criminals let out of jail early. Shop security guards not allowed to touch shoplifters, meaning the farcical situation where thieves just ransack stores without anyone doing anything. The police won't come along as they were defunded during the BLM movement. Violent criminals released who then went on to harm and kill more people.

An absolute mess. Has anyone been to downtown San Fran recently ? Most shops shut, ghostown. I was wary walking around Beverly hills last year, needles everywhere and I got followed by a hobo on his bike !!

You see all this hype on social media about London being unsafe but LA and San Fran feel and are a hell of a lot worse.

 

[Chicken Run]

Am i right in thinking Frump will win the Popular Vote too?