[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*

[lasvegan]

I would love to hear your views on Project 25, the ‘Conservative Promise’ that Trump intends to implement should he be elected.

https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf

Wiki summarises it as

1. Crack down on abortion nationwide
2. Add a census question about citizenship and reapportion electoral votes based on number of citizens, not number of people
3. Roll back environmental regulations and drill for more oil and gas in the arctic
4. Simplify the tax code and lower the corporate tax rate and then make it harder for congress to change that tax system
5. Give the president direct control of the entire executive branch, including the DOJ, and then direct the DOJ to pursue legal action against Trump’s adversaries
6. Rescind regulations prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity, etc for the department of health and human services
7. Deputize the national guard in red states to intern in camps and subsequently deport undocumented immigrants and then have those guardsmen invade blue states to do the same thing
8. Outlaw pornography (but really, they mean outlaw teaching kids that it’s okay to be LGBTQ)
9. Fire all federal employees who are insufficiently loyal to Trump and replace them with vetted stooges
10. Eliminate or drastically defund numerous federal agencies including but not limited to the FBI, EPA and USAID

Edit: Citing an anonymous source, The Washington Post reported Project 2025 includes immediately invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807 to deploy the military for domestic law enforcement and directing the DOJ to pursue Trump adversaries.

Or as one Reddit user put it…

This “project” is nothing less than a professionally framed playbook for a coup to usurp our current democracy and replace it entirely with an autocratic Evangelical Fascist regime!”

I don’t need a Wiki summary, I’m going to read all 920 PAGES and get back to you first thing in the morning…

 

[Bodian]

So is claimed, but why would he do that? What I heard he said he needed more time to go through the boxes for them.

Please provide something that shows this.

Thanks

 

[Zeberdi]

I don’t need a Wiki summary, I’m going to read all 920 PAGES and get back to you first thing in the morning…

I got through about 40 pages then speed read through about another 40 and then gave up - I really did need the Wiki summary

Please provide something that shows this.

Thanks

I posted this link above - apparently the excuse Trump gave to the Feds was he had to get his shoes and ‘pants’ out of the boxes before he handed them over to the Feds - don’t ask!

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/19/trump-sort-boxes-mar-a-lago-00102611

Of course there is another very simple possible explanation for all of this :

“Hoarding behaviour was recognised as a clinical disorder by the World Health Organisation in 2018.”

“The things that people choose to hoard are always significant, even if they appear worthless to others. There is an emotional attachment to the possessions themselves - They can be strongly connected to their sense of identity, particularly a past identity which they have difficulty letting go of, which can be more prevalent in older people. For example, a retired journalist might collect endless copies of the newspaper they wrote for as a means of holding onto that identity. Or a mother whose children are grown up and gone might nostalgically keep and treasure all their toys, long-outgrown clothes and every picture they ever drew.”

https://www.homecare.co.uk/advice/hoarding-and-the-elderly#:~:text=The%20toll%20on%20mental%20health,feelings%20they%20are%20dealing%20with.

 

[lasvegan]

I would love to hear your views on Project 25, the ‘Conservative Promise’ that Trump intends to implement should he be elected.

https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf

Wiki summarises it as

1. Crack down on abortion nationwide
2. Add a census question about citizenship and reapportion electoral votes based on number of citizens, not number of people
3. Roll back environmental regulations and drill for more oil and gas in the arctic
4. Simplify the tax code and lower the corporate tax rate and then make it harder for congress to change that tax system
5. Give the president direct control of the entire executive branch, including the DOJ, and then direct the DOJ to pursue legal action against Trump’s adversaries
6. Rescind regulations prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity, etc for the department of health and human services
7. Deputize the national guard in red states to intern in camps and subsequently deport undocumented immigrants and then have those guardsmen invade blue states to do the same thing
8. Outlaw pornography (but really, they mean outlaw teaching kids that it’s okay to be LGBTQ)
9. Fire all federal employees who are insufficiently loyal to Trump and replace them with vetted stooges
10. Eliminate or drastically defund numerous federal agencies including but not limited to the FBI, EPA and USAID

Edit: Citing an anonymous source, The Washington Post reported Project 2025 includes immediately invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807 to deploy the military for domestic law enforcement and directing the DOJ to pursue Trump adversaries.

Or as one Reddit user put it…

This “project” is nothing less than a professionally framed playbook for a coup to usurp our current democracy and replace it entirely with an autocratic Evangelical Fascist regime!”

Phew, got through it in a couple of hours. A quick summary…

1. Trump can’t crack down on this, it’s a state issue. As an aside, I believe abortion is abhorrent.
2. Excellent idea. Non citizens should have no influence on electoral votes.
3. Excellent idea. The war on fossil fuels is destroying our economy.
4. Excellent idea.
5. Unconstitutional, although it hasn’t stopped the DOJ pursuing legal action against Biden‘s adversaries.
6. Excellent idea, meritocracy rules.
7. invade blue states? Again, a state issue.
8.
9. Utterly ridiculous.
10. Excellent idea.

 

[Zeberdi]

Phew, got through it in a couple of hours. A quick summary…

1. Trump can’t crack down on this, it’s a state issue. As an aside, I believe abortion is abhorrent.
2. Excellent idea. Non citizens should have no influence on electoral votes.
3. Excellent idea. The war on fossil fuels is destroying our economy.
4. Excellent idea.
5. Unconstitutional, although it hasn’t stopped the DOJ pursuing legal action against Biden‘s adversaries.
6. Excellent idea, meritocracy rules.
7. invade blue states? Again, a state issue.
8.
9. Utterly ridiculous.
10. Excellent idea.

Page references and para nos please. (and any relevant footnotes you may have referred to) - one can’t possibly respond to such a well thought out analysis without reference to the original source material

 

[lasvegan]

Page references and para nos please. (and any relevant footnotes you may have referred to) - one can’t possibly respond to such a well thought out analysis without reference to the original source material

I can’t think of a well more thought out analysis than yours…

 

[lasvegan]

I can’t think of a well more thought out analysis than yours…

Keep it up Zeb, this would be far much less a forum without you.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

3. Excellent idea. The war on fossil fuels is destroying our economy.

Hmm, let me think, would I prefer a weaker economy with no fossil fuels yet a habtiable planet for all or would I rather we destroyed the planet and only the very rich nations survive ( if they're lucky ) ? Difficult one I'll accept.

 

[Curious Orange]

Phew, got through it in a couple of hours. A quick summary…

1. Trump can’t crack down on this, it’s a state issue. As an aside, I believe abortion is abhorrent.
2. Excellent idea. Non citizens should have no influence on electoral votes.
3. Excellent idea. The war on fossil fuels is destroying our economy.
4. Excellent idea.
5. Unconstitutional, although it hasn’t stopped the DOJ pursuing legal action against Biden‘s adversaries.
6. Excellent idea, meritocracy rules.
7. invade blue states? Again, a state issue.
8.
9. Utterly ridiculous.
10. Excellent idea.

This demonstrates well that you can't tell what a person thinks about any issue from their known opinion about one specific one.

 

[One Love]

Phew, got through it in a couple of hours. A quick summary…

1. Trump can’t crack down on this, it’s a state issue. As an aside, I believe abortion is abhorrent.

WTF

 

[chickens]

Phew, got through it in a couple of hours. A quick summary…

3. Excellent idea. The war on fossil fuels is destroying our economy.

Just homing in on this point. Do you understand that from a global perspective this looks like you and those who think like you saying “let the world burn.”

Do you understand that anyone with kids, or perhaps able to contemplate further than their own navel, might see this as outright stupid?

We have the technology to decarbonise, I know that oil, coal and gas have historically been seen as useful fuels, but we are, of necessity, weaning ourselves off them. America is not somehow immune from climate change, how has maintaining the planet in a manner that keeps it human habitable become some sort of political choice as opposed to a survival imperative.

It looks incredibly “we’re alright Jack” from outside.

 

[Stat Brother]

WTF

Chances are most Americans wouldn't have felt that way 50 years.
Then abortion was just 'a Catholic problem'.

Things Fell Apart - S1. Ep 1: 1000 Dolls - BBC Sounds

Strange tales from the culture wars by Jon Ronson.

www.bbc.co.uk

With the majority of US Catholics now in favour of a form of abortion laws.

In practice, Catholics’ views on abortion are not always aligned with the guidance of their church. Like U.S. adults overall, the majority of U.S. Catholics say abortion should be legal – at least in some cases – as do many Catholic legislators and other politicians

8 key findings about Catholics and abortion

Like U.S. adults overall, the majority of U.S. Catholics say abortion should be legal – at least in some cases.

www.pewresearch.org

Obviously it's been 4 years since that study was published and a lot has changed.
It's amazing just how quickly women's rights have been eroded in the US.

 

[Zeberdi]

Hmm, let me think, would I prefer a weaker economy with no fossil fuels yet a habtiable planet for all or would I rather we destroyed the planet and only the very rich nations survive ( if they're lucky ) ? Difficult one I'll accept.

This demonstrates well that you can't tell what a person thinks about any issue from their known opinion about one specific one.

WTF

Just homing in on this point. Do you understand that from a global perspective this looks like you and those who think like you saying “let the world burn.”

Do you understand that anyone with kids, or perhaps able to contemplate further than their own navel, might see this as outright stupid?

I’m pretty sure @lasvegan was being tongue in cheek with this ‘analysis’

Perhaps read my preceding posts with him on the previous page

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Chances are most Americans wouldn't have felt that way 50 years.
Then abortion was just 'a Catholic problem'.

Things Fell Apart - S1. Ep 1: 1000 Dolls - BBC Sounds

Strange tales from the culture wars by Jon Ronson.

www.bbc.co.uk

With the majority of US Catholics now in favour of a form of abortion laws.

In practice, Catholics’ views on abortion are not always aligned with the guidance of their church. Like U.S. adults overall, the majority of U.S. Catholics say abortion should be legal – at least in some cases – as do many Catholic legislators and other politicians

8 key findings about Catholics and abortion

Like U.S. adults overall, the majority of U.S. Catholics say abortion should be legal – at least in some cases.

www.pewresearch.org

Obviously it's been 4 years since that study was published and a lot has changed.
It's amazing just how quickly women's rights have been eroded in the US.

Part of the problem is the definition of abortion by politicians as opposed by doctors/medical staff.

A natural miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion which can happen in up to a third of pregnancies.
A missed miscarriage is a failed spontaneous abortion where the fetus has died but not aborted thereby rotting and needs a D&C (dilation and curettage) to prevent the woman from dying of an infection (fairly commonplace)
An ectopic pregnancy where the embryo hasn't reached the womb, but embeds itself in the fallopian tube, causing great danger to the mother, and needs medical intervention asap

All of these are acceptable by the church and medical treatment given.

Then there is the social aspect where a woman/girl is raped resulting in pregnancy.

Most churches will accept a very early abortion but in the case of Downs Syndrome babies, it can be as late as 37 weeks.

 

[carlzeiss]

One of Trump's supporters (I assume) has set himself on fire outside the courthouse in protest.

Shows the depth of lunacy amongst his supporters. Trump will probably derive a perverse sense of pride at such an extreme display of devotion to him whilst at the same time manipulating the narrative to blame Biden for the man's injuries...."if corrupt Biden hadnt had these charges brought against me that loyal patriot would not have felt compelled to set himself on fire"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-68841535

Max Azzarello was a registered Democrat according to this article , sorry to disappoint you .

Max Azzarello: What we know about man who died after setting himself on fire

The man was later identified by the New York Police Department as 37-year-old Max Azzarello from St Augustine Florida

www.independent.co.uk

Police said that Mr Azzarello’s driver’s license showed he was born in 1987 and was a native of St Augustine, Florida. A registered Democrat, he attended the University of North Carolina from 2005 to 2009, according to public records and his LinkedIn page.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Part of the problem is the definition of abortion by politicians as opposed by doctors/medical staff.

A natural miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion which can happen in up to a third of pregnancies.
A missed miscarriage is a failed spontaneous abortion where the fetus has died but not aborted thereby rotting and needs a D&C (dilation and curettage) to prevent the woman from dying of an infection (fairly commonplace)
An ectopic pregnancy where the embryo hasn't reached the womb, but embeds itself in the fallopian tube, causing great danger to the mother, and needs medical intervention asap

All of these are acceptable by the church and medical treatment given.

Then there is the social aspect where a woman/girl is raped resulting in pregnancy.

Most churches will accept a very early abortion but in the case of Downs Syndrome babies, it can be as late as 37 weeks.

Indeed.

The sort of people who will murder a person who works at an abortion clinic (this has happened in the US) are not part of mainstream society, and yet their position is what drives the laws in some states in the US. I find the imperative to pander to extremism hard to understand.

 

[rogersix]

Except there appears a lack of state witnesses.

do you hold any shares in truth?

 

[Triggaaar]

I got through about 40 pages then speed read through about another 40 and then gave up

Wait - are you actually saying TLDR?

 

[Triggaaar]

Hmm, let me think, would I prefer a weaker economy with no fossil fuels yet a habtiable planet for all or would I rather we destroyed the planet and only the very rich nations survive ( if they're lucky ) ? Difficult one I'll accept.

The problem is that this is like the prisoner's dilemma. If all countries worked together to use renewable fuels, then all countries would benefit. But if some countries don't bother, then they will benefit from the work of other countries and also do better financially from their use of fossil fuels. So you're obviously not going to all countries to agree to drop fossil fuels.

 

[Curious Orange]

Indeed.

The sort of people who will murder a person who works at an abortion clinic (this has happened in the US) are not part of mainstream society, and yet their position is what drives the laws in some states in the US. I find the imperative to pander to extremism hard to understand.

There does appear to be a cultural norm these days that it is unacceptable to admit when you are wrong or that your position has changed (or is different from your peers) - as people that do are attacked and ridiculed for doing so. This seems to lead to a social pressure from their peers to double down when challenged on their opinions I feel.