[Politics] The 2024 US Election - *MATCH DAY*

[BBassic]

Just imagine any British politician uttering that shite? What is it with conspiracy theories and Republicans??

At a guess?

They're utterly unhinged lunatics who have been encouraged and empowered by a succession of grifters and charlatans to such a degree that were they to challenge their views and opinions it would likely lead to a full mental breakdown.

 

[US Seagull]

Might need a 'Trump Mk.2' thread if Vivek Ramaswamy gets the nomination. Though one suspects he isn't the ideal candidate for some white Republican voters. For some reason.

Combative Vivek Ramaswamy emerges as surprise focal point of GOP debate

Biotech entrepreneur takes on Trump mantle in former president’s absence, drawing heavy fire from other candidates

www.theguardian.com

After all eight candidates declined to raise their hands when asked if they believed human behavior was causing the climate crisis, Ramaswamy jumped in, stridently rapping out: “Unlock American energy, drill, frack, burn coal, embrace nuclear.”

In his closing statement, he rapped out hard-right talking points once again: “God is real. There are two genders. Fossil fuels are a requirement for human prosperity. Reverse racism is racism. An open border is not a border. Parents determine the education of their children. The nuclear family is the greatest form of governance known to man. Capitalism lifts us up from poverty.”

He has about as much chance of being president as I do. Or even you.

He can be as Trumpy as he wants, but the fact remains his skin is incompatible with a lot of Trump's supporters.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I find Trump completely boring now, no one believes there is a huge conspiracy against him except the braindead rednecks

There is no way America will vote him back in, his popularity is greatly exagerated, most moderate voters, find him highly toxic and would never win the election

I've come from the future and, from late 2024 until January 2025, losing candidate Donald J Trump – after dodging jail – is recycling his 'rigged election' ramblings to anyone who will listen to him.

 

[n1 gull]

Didn't he also say/suggest the other day that he thought 9/11 was an inside job?

No he didn't say that.

He said the Government has not told the whole truth. 20 year old documents have been published linking the Saudi's but they were not disclosed at the time for the obvious reason of not pissing them off

Vivek is a highly intelligent guy but I can't see him beating Trump. I wonder if he will accept a place on the Trump ticket?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

It's too simplistic (and lazy) to explain Trump in pure Marxist terms.

You also have to factor in the number of American tired of the political establishment and the prominence of certain families who wanted to stir things up.

I know loads of American who despise Trump, but they hate Biden too. But as I've said to them you've got an issue where millions love Trump, but no-one appears to love Biden.

Americans are the most deeply Capitalistic people on earth, it defines them. Far more than this country will still has its class imbalance and old school money.

They will never embrace anything that even resembles Socialism.

Actually - the points you make would fit a Marxist analysis. I made a very general (and short) statement - I can give you a fuller Marxist analysis if needed.

And you are incorrect in your assessment of the American population's support for capitalism. Like in Britain, there is significant support for socialist policies -

69% support medicare-for-all.
63% support free public college tuition.
59% support raising the minimum wage to $15 by 2025.
85% support paid work leave for illness.
82% support paid maternity leave.
69% support paid paternity leave.
67% support paid leave to care for an ill family member.
74% support continued social security benefits without cuts.
66% support government-led environmental protections.
64% support a wealth tax.

Overall about 40% of the American population have a positive view of socialism - it's higher among under 35s - and among the black, Hispanic and Asian population. It also tends to be higher among those who are better educated. Support for socialism is lowest among white Americans with a high school or lower education - and even then it is around 30%. Support for capitalism is highest among middle and upper income white men.

 

[clapham_gull]

Actually - the points you make would fit a Marxist analysis. I made a very general (and short) statement - I can give you a fuller Marxist analysis if needed.

And you are incorrect in your assessment of the American population's support for capitalism. Like in Britain, there is significant support for socialist policies -

69% support medicare-for-all.
63% support free public college tuition.
59% support raising the minimum wage to $15 by 2025.
85% support paid work leave for illness.
82% support paid maternity leave.
69% support paid paternity leave.
67% support paid leave to care for an ill family member.
74% support continued social security benefits without cuts.
66% support government-led environmental protections.
64% support a wealth tax.

Overall about 40% of the American population have a positive view of socialism - it's higher among under 35s - and among the black, Hispanic and Asian population. It also tends to be higher among those who are better educated. Support for socialism is lowest among white Americans with a high school or lower education - and even then it is around 30%. Support for capitalism is highest among middle and upper income white men.

So that's 60% percent you have a negative view. Quite crafty for to simply call out policies.

The majority of Americans are like small c conservatives over here. They don't like the Government interfering in their lives but are the first to complain when the Government (or local Government) doesn't step in to fix a problem.

That doesn't make them ideological socialists though comrade, I'm sorry.

What they say about the police in the US, is their politics are Republican but their needs are Democrat.

Come back on here when the US electorate elect an openly socialist President.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

It's interesting when you look at his politcal affiliations on Wiki, he seems to have flip flopped between Democrats, Republicans and Independents. He also donated heavily to the Democratic Party at one point. In other words he has always been a business man with his eye on the main chance - nothing more. Anyone thinking he represents them is seriously deluded.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

So that's 60% percent you have a negative view. Quite crafty for to simply call out policies.

The majority of Americans are like small c conservatives over here. They don't like the Government interfering in their lives but are the first to complain when the Government (or local Government) doesn't step in to fix a problem.

That doesn't make them ideological socialists though comrade, I'm sorry.

What they say about the police in the US, is their politics are Republican but their needs are Democrat.

Come back on here when the US electorate elect an openly socialist President.

Given the ideological offensive against socialism over the past 75 years - it is remarkable that support runs at 40%. Modern American capitalism was built on whipping up anti-socialist hysteria (in much the same way that they whipped up any-Muslim hysteria in the aftermath of the attacks on the twin towers).

It is important not to equate the outlook of small 'c' conservative white America with American society as a whole. Most minority groups are significantly more open to socialist ideas than white America (and unfortunately, for some difficult to explain reason, among Native Americans - possibly because the Republicans have consistently claimed that the Reservations are 'socialist archipelagos' and the abject poverty on the reservations is then equated with this notion).

America is never going to elect a socialist President - the electoral college was specifically designed to reinforce the white Anglo-Saxon Christian fundamentalist section of society - specifically to placate the slave owners in the aftermath of the American Civil War. Hell - when Bernie Sanders (who is about as left-wing as oh IDK - maybe Lord Kinnock) secured enough delegates to win the Democrat Presidential Nomination ahead of Hilary Clinton, the Democrat establishment fiddled the delegate vote at the convention. There is a left intellectual, Cornel West, running in this coming election and his electoral support in opinion polls is ranging between 4%-9% (and he is taking more support from Trump than from Biden - although most of his support is coming from people who won't vote for either donkey or elephant candidate). However, despite the fact that he will have minimal impact on the outcome - the American media are already engaging in a character assassination on West.

When serious socialist candidates stand in elections in America they tend to do pretty well - case in point -

Kshama Sawant, a Marxist, is a current city councillor in Seattle. In 2012 she stood against the Democrat minority leader in the Washington House of Representatives and got 30% of the vote. She had to go to court to get her party name 'Socialist Alternative' placed on the ballot paper (they wanted to classify her as 'non-partisan'). In 2013 she stood against the head of Seattle City Council, Democrat, Richard Conlin - and defeated Conlin securing almost 100,000 votes. In 2015 the Democrats gerrymandered the election in an attempt to remove Sawant - replacing city-wide elections with district constituencies - they also put forward a high profile woman as a candidate against her and spend more than $2million in trying to remove her from the council - Sawant won with 56% of the vote. After the 2015 election Sawant proposed what became known as the 'Amazon Tax' - or the Seattle Head Tax - a tax of $100 per employee on large companies in the city - to fund homeless services and low cost housing. The move had massive support across the city (80% support) which forced the city council to adopt the measure. As soon as the measure was passed Amazon led a campaign of big businesses to overturn the measure, which they eventually succeeded in doing in 2018 (and in the process broke American law). When Sawant stood for reelection in 2019 Amazon led the campaign to remove her - Amazon gave $5million, Republicans PACs provided a further $1.5million, other big business PACs gave a further $1.5million - the Democrats withdrew their candidate - and the Republicans, Democrats and and business interests in the city rowed in behind an independent candidate, known as an 'entrepreneurial community activist' and head of corporate Pride events in the city. They threw millions of dollars and the whole weight of the political establishment (including drafting in high profile Democrat and Republican politicians) behind attempting to remove Sawant - and a known Marxist candidate, open about her political affiliation, with the support of a grassroots movement, defeated the lot of them and retained her seat. Not happy with their loss, Amazon continued their campaign to remove Kshama Sawant - funding a bogue recall campaign to force a recall election - and then when broke the law in how they forced the recall election to take place. Amazon and the PACs again threw millions of dollars behind a campaign to remove - not a Presidential candidate, not a candidate for the Senate or House of Representatives, not a candidate for the state legislature - but a city councillor in a city about the size of Manchester (unlike Manchester which has about 100 councillors - Seattle elects 9 city councillors). And guess what - they failed again - Kshama Sawant and her supporters won the recall election.

This is an example of the success a serious socialist candidate who is willing to stand for socialist policies and not bend to the pressure of small 'c' America can achieve - and the lengths the establishment will go to prevent socialist ideas getting any traction in American Society. But it is clear that there is support for socialist ideas - the Democratic Socialists of America has seen their membership increase ten-fold in the past few years from 50,000 to over 500,000. In 2020 more than 40 DSA members were elected in different parts of America gaining well over 3 million votes in the process. The problem with the DSA is that their elected representatives tend to cave into the Democrats when they get elected (AOC is an example of this).

Elections in America are not democratic - indeed it is one of the most undemocratic electoral processes in the world (Britain isn't far behind with the first-past-the-post system) - and the American elites, as I have demonstrated above, stop at nothing to prevent socialists gaining traction - including assassinating them - think back to Malcolm X and Martin Luther King.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Trump's appeal is simple: "He hates the same people I hate, hand me the ballot."

Despite theory to the contrary, most voters go into the voting booth not to choose magistrates, and representatives, nor to choose between competing policy agendas, or to decide between differing ideas of the role of government.

They're hunting up a stick to hit people with. In the case of Trump, you know you've chosen a stout stick, that it will get used, and on the right people.

Whom does Biden hate? Not whom does the torrent of internet media says he hates -- whom does he hate?

That's the problem. Voters might want to put the boot in, and in his case, they're not sure where it will go.
Crazies will tell you "Biden hates patriots! Real Americans! Hard-working people with jobs and families! Soldiers! Cops! White people! Christians! That's who he hates."

The ones who aren't recent head-trauma cases don't actually believe that. They produce it for two reasons -- it's the password that gets them in the club, that proves their bona fides.

The other reason, much less benign, is what claiming it then gives them and the people they vote for permission to do.

So many whoms. Quite brilliant and thanks!

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Prisoner identification number: P01135809 does not look a happy bunny

 

[Motogull]

Ooh, he's 'ard. The other inmates better watch out. I'd stick him in beast wing.

 

[Springal]

 

[BBassic]

How's he going to top up his tan in the clink?

 

[A1X]

Damn Democrats, forcing poor Donald to commit all those crimes

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A civil war like split?

Is that an anagram? Or is it simply bollocks?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Prisoner identification number: P01135809 does not look a happy bunny

View attachment 165483

Is that him trying to look hard?

My first though was that this look reminds me of someone. Ah yes, serial killer Graham Young.

 

[A1X]

 

[Stato]

215lb?! They must have asked him his weight, not weighed him. I reckon he's taken at least three stone off that.

 

[Zeberdi]

He’s obviously staged his expression to look both menacing, shocking and cinematic all at the same time he probably practiced it for hours in the mirror - after the internet being flooded for weeks with dramatic A1 images of Trump mugshots, the reality needed to be a real attention grabber in order to continue to feed the ’witch-hunt’ narrative and affirm the power that Trump still has to draw wide public support and attention ( and continue to be politically very significant). A normal bland, blank-faced mugshot would not have had the same impact

Everything about these trials and indictments is helping Trump - even if he was convicted, judging by the response of his fellow contenders for the nomination at the first debate, he would still be ahead and the GOP’s choice. Not one of them will speak out against him because they are all holding out for VEEP if he wins or scared of personal backlash against them if they criticise him.

It’s scary stuff and the Dems need to find a credible alternative to Biden and fast because Trump’s has a winnable point when he says ‘Biden can’t walk or talk’!