[Finance] Tax Rates Going Forward

[LlcoolJ]

As an accountant I would have thought you would have understood £1,500 was a lot of money in 1966. They, and us as a family, have had some holidays - most very modest ones in Devon or Cornwall. My wider point is that people shouldn't be taxed on an asset they have made sacrifices to get and have no control over how it's value increases ( or possibly decreases ) if the tax has been paid on the money to buy said asset - especially one that can't really be valued without selling it. Tax at the point of income or sale and no more.

Equally to tax people on the value of their property ( excluding council tax or rates - poll tax was a far fairer way of paying for services ) is an unfair system - you might as well tax people on their shoe size.

My word.

OK lets's do this REALLY simply.

I have stated on numerous occasions that I DISAGREE with the idea of taxing everyone (council tax aside) on the value of the house they live in.

My point was that you are making a monumental TIT of yourself on this thread by using your "look at me I'm inheriting a fortune and I'll make sure I pay no tax on it" stance.

Not exactly what 99% of the population want to hear at the moment. Oh and your totally erroneous rubbish that capital gains are somehow "earned income". If they were then they would be taxed accordingly. Has the penny dropped?

You don't have a wider point, you don't answer anything I write. Carry on if you like, but I'll carry on ripping it to shreds. I've not even started on this post of yours alone, because I'm being nice.

LLx

 

[Bedsex]

I agree with your post.

But VAT and PAYE are red herrings, Amazon would pay their full whack too.

The fraud in my eyes is paying negligible Corporation Tax on huge revenues, after a slight of hand with ‘charges’s from their fellow group company in the tax haven of Luxembourg. $14.5bn UK sales (excluding VAT), just £83m paid in CT.

£83m of CT, grossed up equates to taxable profits of £437m. £437m profit on $14.5bn sales (c. £11.5bn) equates to a profit margin of just under 4% - sounds about right for a limited risk distributer!

The other point to note is that in terms of the total tax take, corporation tax is relatively insignificant, I can’t recall precisely the % of the UK total tax represented by CT, but I believe that it’s significantly smaller than the contribution from personal income tax, NIC and VAT. That’s why we’ve seen a significant reduction in CT rates over the past few years, as the government have tried to attract big businesses to set up HQs in the UK (more employees and employment tax take rather than CT take) and to try to prevent big businesses relocating elsewhere (eg pharmaceutical co’s relocating to Ireland).

However, I would expect to see CT rates come back up slightly, the government have already stepped back from the proposed reduction to 17%.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Thanks, so anyone who employs her is in effect employing her company and she in turn does the work, why don't hmrc put a stop to this, it's clearly a way of legally avoiding tax, if i've read this correctly she paid just over £33,000 corporation tax, i can't work out how mach she earned from this tho

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/07566633/filing-history

Er. Aside from anything else, her Director's loan account is £260k overdrawn.

This will cause huge corporation tax and personal tax liabilities, but I guess her accountants have worked out that it's better than paying her the dividends to cover it.

With half a million in the bank and that mess of a set of accounts I could see that company going South sometime soon...........

Who the f*** is she btw?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

by using your "look at me I'm inheriting a fortune and I'll make sure I pay no tax on it" stance.

Not something I've said at all. I used my parents as an example of why I think it a bad idea to tax people on their property value - something you agree with. What I also said was that I would use any means necessary to limit MY tax obligations on my property so MY children would inherit more and the government got less. I don't mind if my parents pull all the money from their house and spend it on women, men and drugs - that's their choice and I don't EXPECT to inherit anything.

There - that's my nice reply

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What I also said was that I would use any means necessary to limit MY tax obligations on my property so MY children would inherit more and the government got less.

Given your previously mentioned desire to retire to France will there be anything left after you’ve paid for your post-Brexit private health insurance?

 

[LlcoolJ]

Not something I've said at all. I used my parents as an example of why I think it a bad idea to tax people on their property value - something you agree with. What I also said was that I would use any means necessary to limit MY tax obligations on my property so MY children would inherit more and the government got less. I don't mind if my parents pull all the money from their house and spend it on women, men and drugs - that's their choice and I don't EXPECT to inherit anything.

There - that's my nice reply

Thanks for being nice. You've not really replied to any of my points but that's your prerogative. It's all there for anyone to make their own minds up about anyway, and I wouldn't want to fall out. Is it 12.00 yet?

 

[Tight shorts]

I think it's time the ISA millionaires started paying some tax on their tax free investments. I think the whole tax free ISA issue needs looking at. Keep a small amount of investment income tax free for everyone to avoid the need for ordinary people to file Tax Returns but all others should pay their share of tax on their investments. We want to encourage active investment in emerging businesses not passive saving.

I would increase the rate of capital gains tax to align it with income tax and would increase inheritance tax as well. Keep some reliefs for entrepreneurs who reinvest.

I think there should be a higher income tax rate for the super rich and slightly higher rates for all but the lowest paid.

The whole gig economy/employed/self employed issue needs a serious reform, not just to raise revenue but to make sure workers have decent rights and aren't just exploited and forced to live a hand to mouth existence, at the whim of their employers

I would also tweak the UK's rules on taxing it's non residents as other countries collect far more tax on their citizens who work/live abroad most of the time, than we do.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Not something I've said at all. I used my parents as an example of why I think it a bad idea to tax people on their property value - something you agree with. What I also said was that I would use any means necessary to limit MY tax obligations on my property so MY children would inherit more and the government got less. I don't mind if my parents pull all the money from their house and spend it on women, men and drugs - that's their choice and I don't EXPECT to inherit anything.

There - that's my nice reply

Your parents conservative approach to house purchasing wasn't genetic then

As an ex-property developer who lost around £500k in 2008 I'd disagree.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I would also tweak the UK's rules on taxing it's non residents as other countries collect far more tax on their citizens who work/live abroad most of the time, than we do.

Which countries do this? I know the U.S. do, but only after a certain threshold.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Your parents conservative approach to house purchasing wasn't genetic then

Nope ..... I'm a child of the Thatcher years so what do you expect ? I do worry about how much time you have on your hands to both remember that post and then find it !

 

[LlcoolJ]

People bang on about inheritance tax. No ****er pays it! Look at the stats. It's a TINY proportion of estates that pay a huge percentage of the TINY amount that HMRC actually gets from it.

Less that half a week of COVID costs, per year.

Most will be those inheriting huge amounts of property/other assets in the 10s of £ms. It's such a non story, but people who it will never, ever affect lap it up.........

https://www.patrickcannon.net/insights/2019-uk-inheritance-tax-statistics/

 

[Tight shorts]

Each country has it's own rules on determining whether an individual is a tax resident in that country. You can be a UK property owner but work abroad and be a non resident. Other countries will still consider you a resident purely by virtue of being the owner of a residential property. Denmark is an example. They have a very firm grip on taxing their citizens who work abroad.

 

[beorhthelm]

£83m of CT, grossed up equates to taxable profits of £437m. £437m profit on $14.5bn sales (c. £11.5bn) equates to a profit margin of just under 4% - sounds about right for a limited risk distributer!

yep, trouble is financially illiterate media and political commentators see the big revenue number and think that should be taxed and full CT rate.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

People bang on about inheritance tax. No ****er pays it! Look at the stats. It's a TINY proportion of estates that pay a huge percentage of the TINY amount that HMRC actually gets from it.

Less that half a week of COVID costs, per year.

Most will be those inheriting huge amounts of property/other assets in the 10s of £ms. It's such a non story, but people who it will never, ever affect lap it up.........

https://www.patrickcannon.net/insights/2019-uk-inheritance-tax-statistics/

The average house value in the South East is over £400k so of course lots of people pay inheritance tax.

 

[LlcoolJ]

The average house value in the South East is over £400k so of course lots of people pay inheritance tax.

Oh God not you again. Did you read the link? No, I thought not......

 

[LlcoolJ]

Nope ..... I'm a child of the Thatcher years so what do you expect ? I do worry about how much time you have on your hands to both remember that post and then find it !

Me too. And the main thing I learned from it was not to be selfish **** as everyone will hate you.

 

[schmunk]

The average house value in the South East is over £400k so of course lots of people pay inheritance tax.

The average house is owned by a couple, and the IHT threshold for a couple is £650,000.

Old stats, but good enough for this: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ttachment_data/file/832126/IHT_Commentary.pdf - "In 2016-17, 4.6% of UK deaths resulted in an Inheritance Tax (IHT) charge, "

 

[WATFORD zero]

Nope ..... I'm a child of the Thatcher years so what do you expect ? I do worry about how much time you have on your hands to both remember that post and then find it !

Maybe I have an incredible capacity for detail, or maybe it is quite rare that an NSCer posts that they've lost half a million quid in a single year buying and selling property, although I can now see why you became a telecoms consultant

 

[LlcoolJ]

Maybe I have an incredible capacity for detail, or maybe it is quite rare that an NSCer posts that they've lost half a million quid in a single year buying and selling property, although I can now see why you became a telecoms consultant

More Trump than Thatcher really.

 

[Pavilionaire]

1. This Tory government has systemically been collecting less tax than is required to sustain an adequate level of health, policing and education. We've seem evidence of that with the Covid-19 outbreak, the increase in knife crime and lower per head pupil spend.

2. Their 2019 manifesto has tied their hands on income tax, Employees NI and VAT rates. They cannot be changed.

3. The triple lock on state pensions guarantees they must rise at a rate of at least 2%. This cannot be changed.

4. A key tenet of Post-Brexit economic strategy depends upon Britain being a low tax economy to keep the foreign business we have got and attract investors. If Corporation Tax are raised then it is likely the economic effects of Brexit will worsen as investors move elsewhere.

5. How can they cut public spending after 10 years of austerity?

6. If you look at what taxes they can increase there's not much scope there either - directors have been financially smashed under lockdown with dividend not being recognised as earnings, so to hike dividend tax from 7 1/2% will be another attack on small businesses.

7. They'll increase Class 4 NI on the self-employed, they'll increase Capital Gains Tax and they may have to bite the bullet and increase Inheritance Tax and Stamp Duty Land Tax. However, this will be a drop in the ocean and won't even cover the drop in ordinary tax revenue from the economic slump.

I see a perfect storm coming our way in the winter.