taking the knee - what are your thoughts

[wellquickwoody]

Yes, I like the man, have met him once, am friends on facebook etc.

..............................................

Yes I know about the saintly prince Zaha and Sir Les Ferdinand. I happen to think they have made an error of judgement to boycott the knee taking.
:

Wow! You’ve actually met Lenny? Ooooooooh. Friends on FB too, and you like him you say?

You really are in the know, huh?

Moving on to SEGW and Les, are they not racists for coming out against the knee? Or is that reserved for white people?


Funnily enough, I have mer Sir Les, away from football, had a beer and a chat together, doesn’t make me his Facebook friend, or mean that I actually judge him in any way.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

This.

Nicky Campbell has a programme on it now. There are still people arguing that people 'rightly' object to the knee taking because the 'black lives matters movement is controversial'. Even though it has been said time and time again the knee taking has nothing to do with any political organization. Where does this shit come from?

I can understand where this came from even if I don't agree with it.

When the players started taking the knee, Black lives matters was on the players shirts and slogans such as "Defund the Police" and "Kill the Bill" were - rightly or wrongly - associated with the movement and the accompanying riots which haven't helped the cause. I have no doubts a fair portion of the booers are old fashioned, British bulldog, no surrender, racists I think it would have been a better starting point if the message from the beginning was one of equality or some such (I work in IT, slogans aren't my forte). No-one could then go down this marxist route or debate what is trying to be achieved even though I'm sure some would try.

Whilst GS explained very eloquently why the players are doing it - and has convinced me they genuinely want to do it, rather than doing it because they have to which my cynical outlook to life was previously of the belief - the horse has bolted as those against it don't want to listen and have already made up their minds.

 

[cunning fergus]

Yes, I like the man, have met him once, am friends on facebook etc.

If I can put it another way.....there are forces at work here who want anti racism to be conflated with Marxism. The knee taking has nothing to do with the political organization BLM, and certainly nothing to do with the fake organization whose web site is Russian owned, and which was used by Das Reich to support his claim that 'BLM' is run by 'Trained Marxists'.

With all that clear there is no excuses for being remotely old school about the knee taking.

The knee taking upsets some people who are not racist. Or think they are not racist. They need to ask themselves what they are objecting to.

Yes I know about the saintly prince Zaha and Sir Les Ferdinand. I happen to think they have made an error of judgement to boycott the knee taking.

The bottom line is there is nothing the likes of Das Reich want more than the knee taking to stop, or to carry on but be ridiculed. That alone is reason for it to continue and reason to not keep flirting with the 'it has run its course' narrative. Sorry Lenny, you need to think again about your position

That is fake news though isn’t it?

Patrisse Cullors is one of the three founders of BLM and is a self confessed Marxist; recently stepped down due to criticism about her lifestyle.

https://news.sky.com/story/black-li...wn-as-foundations-executive-director-12318860

BLM in the UK is a global network, in partnership with the US.

About BLM Global Network Foundation
#BlacklivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murder. Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation is a global foundation supporting Black led movements in the U.S., UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combatting and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

To be fair these days multi millionaire Marxists or multi millionaire supporters of multi millionaire Marxists and their causes are 2 a penny aren’t they.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

To be fair these days multi millionaire Marxists or multi millionaire supporters of multi millionaire Marxists and their causes are 2 a penny aren’t they.

Good to know the wealth gap is closing. In my day most Marxists were skint.

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Harry is entitled to his opinion whatever it is and is also entitled to post on here.
If you don't like what he says then don't bother reading it or put him on your ignore list.
It's not rocket science

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[rippleman]

That is fake news though isn’t it?

Patrisse Cullors is one of the three founders of BLM and is a self confessed Marxist; recently stepped down due to criticism about her lifestyle.

https://news.sky.com/story/black-li...wn-as-foundations-executive-director-12318860

BLM in the UK is a global network, in partnership with the US.

About BLM Global Network Foundation
#BlacklivesMatter was founded in 2013 in response to the acquittal of Trayvon Martin’s murder. Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation is a global foundation supporting Black led movements in the U.S., UK, and Canada, whose mission is to eradicate white supremacy and build local power to intervene in violence inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes. By combatting and countering acts of violence, creating space for Black imagination and innovation, and centering Black joy, we are winning immediate improvements in our lives.

To be fair these days multi millionaire Marxists or multi millionaire supporters of multi millionaire Marxists and their causes are 2 a penny aren’t they.

OK. Let's have one last try shall we? See if you get it.

The players are taking a symbolic knee to highlight racism and discrimination in the game.

This is a non-political stance. The players are not saying "support marxism"

"Black Lives Matter" is a slogan, a statement to highlight injustices - as well as being a political organisation.

Let's dumb it down. Somebody can have socialist political beliefs without being a member of the Socialist Workers Party.

You really think that every player who has taken the knee has woken up the next morning as a Marxist? Equating taking the knee with support of Marxism is a little bit silly.

But for as long as taking the knee winds up the racists, the more I believe that it needs to continue.

 

[cunning fergus]

It is a complex issue and I fully agree that real changes are needed, though I'm not sure your mortgage suggestion would go down too well. I don't have the answers, unfortunately. But with regard to home ownership, I'd start by taxing the **** out of second home owners.

Should millionaires do more to give back to the societies that have enriched them? Yes, and not just footballers. Does that mean that footballers shouldn't stand up/kneel down against racism unless they can display what tangible difference they're making? No.

What people advocate to address structural racism is far more important though, taking the knee is merely a bauble, I disagree with it as a gesture for a number of reasons and it won’t deliver anything tangible as you recognise.

So, discrimination in jobs, places at uni, Rooney Rule etc. in favour of black candidates is a meaningful policy.

More is needed though........BLM argue for defunding the police, is that reasonable here in UK, not heard any arguments for it from Gareth Southgate and his boys. Be surprised if they did given how often their houses get turned over.

But Gareth and the boys are millionaires, why not get a Premier League Player scholarship fund set up for poor black children to attend the same schools as their own kids.

Not just millionaire footballers too, let’s have the musicians, actors and those from the arts paying in too. I expect they will be taking the knee before they start their performances won’t they?

 

[Bakero]

OK. Let's have one last try shall we? See if you get it.

The players are taking a symbolic knee to highlight racism and discrimination in the game.

This is a non-political stance. The players are not saying "support marxism"

"Black Lives Matter" is a slogan, a statement to highlight injustices - as well as being a political organisation.

Let's dumb it down. Somebody can have socialist political beliefs without being a member of the Socialist Workers Party.

You really think that every player who has taken the knee has woken up the next morning as a Marxist? Equating taking the knee with support of Marxism is a little bit silly.

But for as long as taking the knee winds up the racists, the more I believe that it needs to continue.

Reading the Sky article it seems that even self-proclaimed Marxist Patrisse Cullors isn't actually a Marxist.

Still, I'm sure that won't stop the Premier League players storming the houses of parliament and overthrowing the government soon.

 

[El Presidente]

OK. Let's have one last try shall we? See if you get it.

The players are taking a symbolic knee to highlight racism and discrimination in the game.

This is a non-political stance. The players are not saying "support marxism"

"Black Lives Matter" is a slogan, a statement to highlight injustices - as well as being a political organisation.

Let's dumb it down. Somebody can have socialist political beliefs without being a member of the Socialist Workers Party.

You really think that every player who has taken the knee has woken up the next morning as a Marxist? Equating taking the knee with support of Marxism is a little bit silly.

But for as long as taking the knee winds up the racists, the more I believe that it needs to continue.

But surely if you ignore what the player and managers are saying in terms of why they are taking the knee, then you can pretend they are doing it to support BLM?

 

[Bakero]

What people advocate to address structural racism is far more important though, taking the knee is merely a bauble, I disagree with it as a gesture for a number of reasons and it won’t deliver anything tangible as you recognise.

So, discrimination in jobs, places at uni, Rooney Rule etc. in favour of black candidates is a meaningful policy.

More is needed though........BLM argue for defunding the police, is that reasonable here in UK, not heard any arguments for it from Gareth Southgate and his boys. Be surprised if they did given how often their houses get turned over.

But Gareth and the boys are millionaires, why not get a Premier League Player scholarship fund set up for poor black children to attend the same schools as their own kids.

Not just millionaire footballers too, let’s have the musicians, actors and those from the arts paying in too. I expect they will be taking the knee before they start their performances won’t they?

How about we raise taxes for all high earners and try to enact real changes for the betterment of society?

Why does that mean footballers can't engage in a symbolic act to show their support for anti-racism?

It's clear that the players aren't calling for the UK police to be defunded, so I'm not sure why you're talking about it.

 

[cunning fergus]

OK. Let's have one last try shall we? See if you get it.

The players are taking a symbolic knee to highlight racism and discrimination in the game.

This is a non-political stance. The players are not saying "support marxism"

"Black Lives Matter" is a slogan, a statement to highlight injustices - as well as being a political organisation.

Let's dumb it down. Somebody can have socialist political beliefs without being a member of the Socialist Workers Party.

You really think that every player who has taken the knee has woken up the next morning as a Marxist? Equating taking the knee with support of Marxism is a little bit silly.

But for as long as taking the knee winds up the racists, the more I believe that it needs to continue.

I do understand the point, the players and staff are not Marxist and they evidently think they are taking a non-political stance. The England team and the FA as a whole has a fully functioning PR team and they must broadly think the same. Make no mistake I understand it.

On the other side of that coin though, taking the knee, in the U.K. was connected to violent protests, sponsorship by some U.K. politicians, calls to defund the police and destruction of public property. This is equally true, it is not trumped by or subordinate to the points made by the England team. Therefore, taking the knee in the U.K. is AT BEST a controversial gesture regardless of the intention.

Do I think every England player pulling the Seig Heil in Berlin in 1938 was a Nazi, absolutely not. No doubt the gesture was in line with the perceived wisdom of their manager, staff and PR team.

However, I suspect it was it just as divisive a gesture in England then as taking the knee is now. There’s a good reason the FA have rules to keep politics out of football, it’s a shame they have forgotten them.

The FA had the opportunity to produce another anti racism gesture for the Euros, something that could be connected to KIO and be unique to English football for when crowds came back. They decided not to, so we will now see how that unfolds.

That a missed opportunity and a shame.

 

[cunning fergus]

Reading the Sky article it seems that even self-proclaimed Marxist Patrisse Cullors isn't actually a Marxist.

Still, I'm sure that won't stop the Premier League players storming the houses of parliament and overthrowing the government soon.

Marxists that become rich rarely are.

It’s why Bob Crow when running the RMT still lived in a council house, he knew despite a 6 figure wage he shouldn’t own capital.

There are plenty of “Marxists” out there that want to buy or own a house. I suspect there is a fair constituency of them on here.

 

[McTavish]

Moving on to SEGW and Les, are they not racists for coming out against the knee? Or is that reserved for white people?


Funnily enough, I have mer Sir Les, away from football, had a beer and a chat together, doesn’t make me his Facebook friend, or mean that I actually judge him in any way.

Not sure that either of them booed other people taking the knee...admittedly I may have missed it.

 

[cunning fergus]

How about we raise taxes for all high earners and try to enact real changes for the betterment of society?

Why does that mean footballers can't engage in a symbolic act to show their support for anti-racism?

It's clear that the players aren't calling for the UK police to be defunded, so I'm not sure why you're talking about it.

Fair enough How much tax, and who is a high earner? To address structural racism though how will you channel the money to the impoverished black communities, increase benefits for them?

Footballers have the right to do what they want, I am a liberal, I not for censorship, just allowing others to disagree with it. Footballers by any measure are are amongst the most privileged group in society, if they want to make a difference they can, kneeling is easy, I can do that before I go to work.

The symbol is linked to a movement that espouses many things, including defunding the police. If there was a Family Fortunes question that was, we asked 100 people to say what BLM was about, defund the police would not be a Eeeee Errrrrrr response.

 

[Bakero]

 

[Albumen]

Who is 'they'?

The conservative-chosen “independent” commissioner, for starters.

 

[Bakero]

Fair enough How much tax, and who is a high earner? To address structural racism though how will you channel the money to the impoverished black communities, increase benefits for them?

Footballers have the right to do what they want, I am a liberal, I not for censorship, just allowing others to disagree with it. Footballers by any measure are are amongst the most privileged group in society, if they want to make a difference they can, kneeling is easy, I can do that before I go to work.

The symbol is linked to a movement that espouses many things, including defunding the police. If there was a Family Fortunes question that was, we asked 100 people to say what BLM was about, defund the police would not be a Eeeee Errrrrrr response.

Southgate has made it very clear why the team are taking the knee. Nothing to do with defunding the police, Marxism, or George Floyd's past actions. It's a gesture with an inarguably positive aim, ineffective as it may be.

Yes, it's performative and needs to be a prelude to praxis. However, the onus isn't on footballers to cure society's ills. What they can do is use their position to highlight problems, as they're trying to do. No doubt many of them are involved in charity and community work too. Could some of them to more? Probably. So could I.

Like I said before, I don't have the answers. But I'm pretty sure booing anti-racist acts isn't one of them.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Don't you think you've used up all your favours?

So there are favours on here then? who would have guessed.

 

[Randy McNob]

quelle surprise....

[tweet]1401970898194870273[/tweet]

 

[Deleted member 2719]

You think people should be able to convince other people to START booing?

Not at all, I think eventually others will join in, it's only going one way.