taking the knee - what are your thoughts

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

I didnt hear any booing of the knee as i was to busy signing No Surrender to the IRA.

Keep politicks out of sport

Regards

DF

 

[WATFORD zero]

And people wonder why these threads keep getting moved,,,,,,,,,,

Is it because the same racist account keeps coming back, giving various different excuses for why he thinks he should booooo, but not having the balls to explain why, despite being previously banned from NSC previously for Racism, of which there is no record on NSC moderating decisions

Just an outside guess

 

[Randy McNob]

Lenny Rider is quite clearly a daft old racist but gets a pass here. Unfortunately.

Freedom of speech innit....

 

[Hugo Rune]

Why are all threads about booing the knee being deleted?

I think the caller into this radio programme beautifully sums up why people boo, they are just not the brightest sparks or they are racist.

https://youtu.be/izs-g-cQU-o

The conundrum of whether the booing makes England players play better or worse completely bamboozles the daft sod who thinks he is supporting our players.

 

[vagabond]

Whilst the things you suggest are potential policy options, none are being considered by government. The message taking the knee is supposed to give is that the problem is being ignored. It's tricky because the relevance has been lost in the adoption. It started with NFL players not wanting to stand for the national anthem all the time that they felt that their community was under attack from the police. The EPL players are obviously not doing this in response to the national anthem being played, but more to use the gesture to express solidarity with those who are trying to elicit change. In my view, it has continued and needs to continue because it highlights that the powers that be are not taking the problem seriously and are not considering the kind of policy options that you mention. The recent CRED report https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-concerns-about-uk-race-report-documents-show was strongly criticised by most experts on the subject as downplaying the issue and sweeping problems under the carpet.

The EPL knee taking has also got mixed up with the subject of online abuse, which, although a serious issue connected with racial prejudice, muddies the message further. I suspect that those who are complaining and saying that it has run its course are mostly not racists, but merely acting in the way that a lot of us do when being reminded about society's ills 'Yes, I know, why do you have to continue going on about it'. The problem with this attitude is that it ignores the fact that those at the pointy end live with the consequences for a far larger percentage of their day to day life than 30 seconds every Saturday. Them, hearing 'Okay, we know, but we're fed up with it now' must ring a bit hollow when they are probably far more fed up with living with the consequences.

Its always dangerous to talk about privilege because most of us don't perceive ourselves as benefiting from it. Telling white working class people that they enjoy some societal benefits that black people don't is likely to get the reaction about economic inequality that contributed to the last thread on this hitting the Bearpit. Fans who don't approve of the continued kneeling need to realise that it is not being done to preach at them, up until recently it has mostly been happening in empty stadia. It is being done because the league's clubs are in the spotlight as high profile employers of a multi racial workforce. For whatever reason, they want to be on the right side of the debate. You can be sceptical of their motives, but it seems more pragmatic to accept that they are a powerful voice being seen as wanting the right kind of changes and to support, rather than pick holes in the small gesture they are making.

Brilliant post. It is funny people are unaware that “taking the knee” was an NFL issue to begin with and prior to Floyds murder.

 

[vagabond]

Lenny Rider is quite clearly a daft old racist but gets a pass here. Unfortunately.

I don’t know this guy Lenny at all, but this kind of response isn’t really helpful.

As hard as it is, it is better to respond without calling someone a racist. Don’t confuse ignorance, or potted views taken from others for genuine racism.

 

[London Irish]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

Let's see at least one of these ideas implemented first before the symbolic reminder is taken away. I also don't think those who think it's problematic that it's only symbolic would really want to be mixed in with those booing, and I'm in neither of those camps

 

[Husty]

Its my column topic this week.

TO BOO OR NOT TO BOO, THAT IS THE QUESTION?



England’s final EURO 2020 warm up game was shrouded in controversy even before a ball was kicked as a number of fans at the Riverside Stadium appeared to boo the England players as they took the knee before the kick off.

No amount of condemnation of the supporters chorus can hide the fact that this issue isn’t going to go away, and that maybe the FA need to have a complete rethink?

One huge aspect is George Floyd himself, as icons go he’s certainly no Rosa Parkes or Nelson Mandela.

Yes he was murdered, which was a human tragedy in itself, and his killer has been brought to justice, however Floyd’s back story does in many peoples eyes, right around the globe, present a huge question mark over his credibility to being a ‘beacon of hope’ or a catalyst for change.

Whilst its wrong to boo the knee, perhaps now is the time to stop it?

Instead does the UK need to almost forget Floyd and what’s going on in the US and effectively start our own changes in this country?

Would Ian Wright and Harry Kane fronting a nationwide knife amnesty be better than taking the knee?

Would changing the junior and senior school curriculum to cover all the highlighted issues and that of homophobia, hate crimes, social media abuse and all the historical aspects that accompany them be better than taking the knee?

Would rolling out a nationwide government funded programme where we invest in the nations youth, from the inner cities to the countryside communities, be better than taking the knee?

Would investing in the Police , and returning to a time where they were not only a force but had the respect of the overwhelming majority of the population be better than taking the knee?

The legendary P T Barnum famously said “You can’t fool all of the people all of the time” and a large part of this country either publicly, as with the booing, or privately are of the opinion that highly paid sporting figures going down on one knee won’t change anything in the long run.

Whilst I will always have the Albion/Palace rivalry at the back of my mind, I actually think the aforementioned Ian Wright would be the ideal frontman to bring about real change, not hollow gestures but real changes to our society, I believe he already has widespread respect the length and breadth of the nation.

Post pandemic, once normality returns this will be a huge challenge for Boris and co, perhaps one of the most significant government actions of the next 20 years?

Racist alert. (That's you, to clarify.)

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Ithink you've missed the point as I said in those days it was humour and if you watched it at that time I suspect you also laughed at it like I did.

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk

Depends on what your point was.

I laughed at it then, as did most of the rest of the country except for sad people like Mary Whitehouse.

And I would laugh at it again now if it were shown again. The trouble is there are people around who would be nodding in agreement with Mr Garnett these days.

 

[Klaas]

Hence my suggestion of Wright and Kane fronting a knife, even gun, amnesty right across the UK, Frankie Vaughan did in Glasgow in the 1960's after meeting with the leaders of the four big teenage gangs and the Police had in excess of 500 different weapons put in bins outside Police stations right across the city.

I'm sorry but I just find it amazing that you have gone to the trouble of writing an article on the subject but have spectacularly missed the point of taking the knee. You then move swiftly on to knife crime which, was just odd.

 

[GT49er]

Racist alert. (That's you, to clarify.)

Someone desperate to shout racist where it doesn't apply alert!

 

[Live by the sea]

I don’t think the vast majority of people in this country are racist but what really doesn’t help is people being accused of racism if their view differs from the standard Guardian viewpoint .

Saying for example more should be done against knife crime doesn’t make you racist nor does deporting any oversea Nationals back to their original country if they have been convicted of a violent crime ( if safe to do so )

The Problem is the likes of the guardian tries to shut down any debate about uncomfortable issues , like crime etc , under the guise of racism and this is what irritates a lot of people .

Racism is terrible but some of what is being complained about is not racism , it is a difference of opinion and we have to protect free speech at all costs .

 

[cunning fergus]

Brilliant post. It is funny people are unaware that “taking the knee” was an NFL issue to begin with and prior to Floyds murder.

I think you are underestimating British people’s understanding. They may not know all the pounds, shillings and pence about the NFL origins, but I would wager they know it’s a) been imported from the US and b) was synonymous with the BLM protests in the U.K. and c) actively supported by the Labour Party leadership.

The US origin is an important issue, the US race relationship issues are light years away from those in the U.K. If we are happy to actively import US issues, how long till we start using their terminology? For example, Black people in the US appear comfortable with the reference of African American, an equivalent of that term here is the opposite of what the U.K. race relations has sought to achieve? I suspect if the Daily Mail or someone on NSC referenced a black England player as African English there would be saturated mattresses outside houses all over Brighton?

Point b) & c) are politics, some people, regardless of what Southgate says will see a political gesture the Police in London took before being attacked and which was sponsored by Starmer et al, all supporting BLM. The gesture is devisive because of those events and more. The players have made their beds.

 

[Klaas]

Saying for example more should be done against knife crime doesn’t make you racist

And who said it did?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Seriously - what else is left to discuss? Southgate and the players have made it abundantly clear it is nothing to do with the BLM political movement. People still doing it are booing their own players for highlighting racial injustice - nothing else. They can scrabble around for pictures of Zaha and the like as if it that justifies it. You will not change their minds and the threads descend into the predictable.

That works both ways though.

I agree this is done to death like Brexit etc, so that's is why I never bother once I have debated the subject.
But BLM attached themselves to it.

I do not agree with the booing but I do agree with any sport that gets involved with any such an organisation and this is what happened to our beloved football. If they continue to do it the booing will just get worse.

Just glad I did not start this thread or it would have been in the bear pit after 4 mins, perhaps this should be moved over mods

 

[Bakero]

And who said it did?

When the debate is about structural racism and someone shouts "what about knife crime?", I'd say it makes them a bit of a racist. They are suggesting, unwittingly or not, that black people should get their own house in order (ie. stop stabbing each other) before they complain about anything else.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Just glad I did not start this thread or it would have been in the bear pit after 4 mins, perhaps this should be moved over mods

Don't you think you've used up all your favours?

 

[Hugo Rune]

When the debate is about structural racism and someone shouts "what about knife crime?", I'd say it makes them a bit of a racist. They are suggesting, unwittingly or not, that black people should get their own house in order (ie. stop stabbing each other) before they complain about anything else.

I’d also suggest that criticising George Floyd for not being ‘whiter than white’, labelling him an attempted icon of virtue rather than a symbol of the oppression of black people makes you either a bit thick or a bit of a racist. The undertone of ‘he probably deserved it’ is sickening. If only NSC could hand out equality and diversity training instead of bans.............

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jun/05/england-will-take-a-knee-before-euro-2020-matches

Southgate and the England team are 'more determined than ever' to take the knee going forwards.

A good decision.

Agree, good decision. I’ll be taking a knee before each and every game as well, although I need to practice a bit more as I got tangled up in my manbag last time.

 

[Albumen]

And they say our country isn’t racist.