[News] Symon Hill

[el punal]

It’s not often I have a complete strop about people, and certainly do not make my feelings known on a forum, but this bloke has certainly pushed all my buttons. Symon Hill, for those that don’t know what he’s about, is described on Wikipedia as a British Socialist, pacifist, queer Christian, activist and journalist.

The reason for my beef? Well, it’s to do with this, the campaign medal for World War II Bomber Command veterans. As it stands no campaign medal has been awarded to those brave men who served their country in the most harrowing circumstances. 125,000 men volunteered to serve in Bomber Command during the war, of that number 55,000 lost their lives. At present a petition is being drawn up asking the government to recognise and honour those that took part in wartime operations. Seems fair to me, but apparently, not to Symon Hill.

Quoting the BBC, Symon Hill, of the Peace Pledge Union, has said that civilian deaths should be taken into account. He says “The core activity of Bomber Command was the mass bombing of German cities and civilians. To award a medal isn’t just to recognise how members of Bomber Command suffered, it would implicitly suggest that activity was OK, which is something we should not feel comfortable with.”

Such soothing words Mr.Hill. Has it ever occurred to you that those poor buggers, who risked their lives day after day, night after night, to serve their country, had any say in operational strategy? They performed their given task to the best of their ability, they were following orders, they knew that at any given time that they might not return home.

Now comes a personal bit. My father was an RAF pilot in Bomber Command during the war. In December 1941 he was flying a Stirling bomber on operations over Brest in France. The purpose of the ops was to attack the German battleships Tirpitz and Gneisenau. His plane was shot down, he lost two of his crew, he and the surviving members were taken prisoner of war. Less than half the aircraft that carried out that mission returned home. My father then spent the rest of the war holed up in Stalag Luft 111, famous for the Great Escape.

I just wish my father was alive today, Mr Hill, just so you could say to his face your feelings about those who served in Bomber Command. I’m not entirely sure that my Dad would agree with you.

 

[Stat Brother]

Symon Hill, for those that don’t know what he’s about, is described on Wikipedia as a British Socialist, pacifist, queer Christian, activist and journalist, and left back?

#FingersCrossed.

 

[spence]

Things like this really annoy me. Utterly clueless some people. People have sacrificed their lives while carrying out orders to defend our Island.

It is also a tragedy that Alan Turning isn't honored more but we know why.

As for Stalag Luft 111 and the American film the Great Escape. Not ONE Yank was involved in the original great escape. It was the British who came up with the idea. Infact a South African man by birth.

 

[Husty]

I really don't get it, how long was WW2 now? Not many veterans left (sadly). Why are you now demanding medals for them?

 

[Gabbafella]

I really don't get it, how long was WW2 now? Not many veterans left (sadly). Why are you now demanding medals for them?

Didn't realise being awarded for bravery had an expiration date.
Maybe we should just ditch the poppy while we're at it, they've milked it enough.

 

[jakarta]

I really don't get it, how long was WW2 now? Not many veterans left (sadly). Why are you now demanding medals for them?

It doesn't matter how long ago the Second World War was. A Campaign Medal is an acknowledgement of what a bloody awful war Bomber Command Crews had.

 

[withdeanwombat]

I really don't get it, how long was WW2 now? Not many veterans left (sadly). Why are you now demanding medals for them?

Doesn’t matter how long ago, or how many are left. All of those men earned a medal, and they or their descendants should bloo*y we’ll get them.

 

[Morvangull]

"Now comes a personal bit. My father was an RAF pilot in Bomber Command during the war. In December 1941 he was flying a Stirling bomber on operations over Brest in France. The purpose of the ops was to attack the German battleships Tirpitz and Gneisenau. His plane was shot down, he lost two of his crew, he and the surviving members were taken prisoner of war. Less than half the aircraft that carried out that mission returned home. My father then spent the rest of the war holed up in Stalag Luft 111, famous for the Great Escape."

My father was a rear gunner and in early 1940 his plane took part in a raid over Germany and on the way back engines failed and the pilot ditched in the north sea. After 4 days in a dingy they were picked up by Dutch fisherman and he spent the rest of the war in prisoner of war camps, including Stalag Luft 111.
After the war However, because he was on only his second mission after ten days at the aerodrome he was denied various medals because he had not served long enough.
I think the Bomber command crews should have much more recognition let alone be awarded a medal.

 

[Husty]

Didn't realise being awarded for bravery had an expiration date.

Of course it doesn't, I'm just rather suspicious as to why this has come up now. I highly doubt the veterans themselves could care less (but I am happy to be proven wrong).

 

[lawros left foot]

There is precedent for the awarding of Campaign Medals long after a conflict has finished. The Artic Star, for those service personnel who served on the Artic Convoys, was only awarded in 2013, too late for most of those eligible.

These veterans who survive should have been awarded campaign honours long ago, maybe they weren’t due to various Governments embarrassment at the awful civilian casualties, but, it was a different kind of war to those fought today, and, we were fighting for our very survival.

Bomber crews did receive a clasp for the 1939-45 Star, awarded in 2013but, many have refused to either claim one, or wear it until an actual Bomber Command Medal is issued, and, I can’t say I blame them.

 

[Seagulls over Essex]

I really don't get it, how long was WW2 now? Not many veterans left (sadly). Why are you now demanding medals for them?

Because they deserve one.

 

[happypig]

"Now comes a personal bit. My father was an RAF pilot in Bomber Command during the war. In December 1941 he was flying a Stirling bomber on operations over Brest in France. The purpose of the ops was to attack the German battleships Tirpitz and Gneisenau. His plane was shot down, he lost two of his crew, he and the surviving members were taken prisoner of war. Less than half the aircraft that carried out that mission returned home. My father then spent the rest of the war holed up in Stalag Luft 111, famous for the Great Escape."

My father was a rear gunner and in early 1940 his plane took part in a raid over Germany and on the way back engines failed and the pilot ditched in the north sea. After 4 days in a dingy they were picked up by Dutch fisherman and he spent the rest of the war in prisoner of war camps, including Stalag Luft 111.
After the war However, because he was on only his second mission after ten days at the aerodrome he was denied various medals because he had not served long enough.
I think the Bomber command crews should have much more recognition let alone be awarded a medal.

To be fair, he spent more time in a dinghy than on ops so maybe he should get a gong off the Navy ?

 

[Spicy]

It’s not often I have a complete strop about people, and certainly do not make my feelings known on a forum, but this bloke has certainly pushed all my buttons. Symon Hill, for those that don’t know what he’s about, is described on Wikipedia as a British Socialist, pacifist, queer Christian, activist and journalist.

The reason for my beef? Well, it’s to do with this, the campaign medal for World War II Bomber Command veterans. As it stands no campaign medal has been awarded to those brave men who served their country in the most harrowing circumstances. 125,000 men volunteered to serve in Bomber Command during the war, of that number 55,000 lost their lives. At present a petition is being drawn up asking the government to recognise and honour those that took part in wartime operations. Seems fair to me, but apparently, not to Symon Hill.

Quoting the BBC, Symon Hill, of the Peace Pledge Union, has said that civilian deaths should be taken into account. He says “The core activity of Bomber Command was the mass bombing of German cities and civilians. To award a medal isn’t just to recognise how members of Bomber Command suffered, it would implicitly suggest that activity was OK, which is something we should not feel comfortable with.”

Such soothing words Mr.Hill. Has it ever occurred to you that those poor buggers, who risked their lives day after day, night after night, to serve their country, had any say in operational strategy? They performed their given task to the best of their ability, they were following orders, they knew that at any given time that they might not return home.

Now comes a personal bit. My father was an RAF pilot in Bomber Command during the war. In December 1941 he was flying a Stirling bomber on operations over Brest in France. The purpose of the ops was to attack the German battleships Tirpitz and Gneisenau. His plane was shot down, he lost two of his crew, he and the surviving members were taken prisoner of war. Less than half the aircraft that carried out that mission returned home. My father then spent the rest of the war holed up in Stalag Luft 111, famous for the Great Escape.

I just wish my father was alive today, Mr Hill, just so you could say to his face your feelings about those who served in Bomber Command. I’m not entirely sure that my Dad would agree with you.

You should be very proud of your father and all that he and others did to save our freedom. Sadly it seems Mr Hill is ignorant of the fact that the Germans persecuted homosexuals so he may well have faced a firing squad or sent to one of the camps. He would not have enjoyed freedom of speech which he uses to talk such rubbish.

 

[Southern Scouse]

In my opinion it’s a delicate question.
There was the Air Crew Europe Star that was given to all aircrew who served in Europe as I understand it, which I would have presumed included bomber command. There is also the monument recently unveiled. I served my country, and never wanted a medal. I do not remember the civilian casualty figures but I have a feeling the German losses were far greater than those of the UK.
You could say flame thrower units caused massive damage and were extremely effective should they be considered for a special medal? I had a great uncle in the RAF and a grandfather who was a fireman in London during the blitz. If I had had the opportunity to sit them both down and ask them their opinion I’m pretty sure they would say they didn’t need special recognition as they were just doing their job.
No idea who Hill is, just seems as though he could have worded his opinion differently, or kept quiet.

 

[Sorrel]

Sir Arthur Harris has a statue in London, Bomber Command has a respected memorial in Green Park. And the war was fought so that people could say their opinion (however misguided) without punishment. You can argue back and raise your cause - as indeed you are. So I don't get the problem.

 

[Frutos]

It doesn't matter how long ago the Second World War was. A Campaign Medal is an acknowledgement of what a bloody awful war Bomber Command Crews had.

This with bells on.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

In my opinion it’s a delicate question.
There was the Air Crew Europe Star that was given to all aircrew who served in Europe as I understand it, which I would have presumed included bomber command. There is also the monument recently unveiled. I served my country, and never wanted a medal. I do not remember the civilian casualty figures but I have a feeling the German losses were far greater than those of the UK.
You could say flame thrower units caused massive damage and were extremely effective should they be considered for a special medal? I had a great uncle in the RAF and a grandfather who was a fireman in London during the blitz. If I had had the opportunity to sit them both down and ask them their opinion I’m pretty sure they would say they didn’t need special recognition as they were just doing their job.
No idea who Hill is, just seems as though he could have worded his opinion differently, or kept quiet.

You state you served your country and didn’t expect a medal. You decided that for a job you would join the armed forces, your decision. These people didn’t have one.

 

[knocky1]

I don't see why they didn't get campaign medals at the time. I've got a few Brighton Marathon medals currently being used as a bird scarer, if anyone wants to find a home for them.

 

[Southern Scouse]

You state you served your country and didn’t expect a medal. You decided that for a job you would join the armed forces, your decision. These people didn’t have one.

Nor did anyone else who served in the forces during WW2 and WW1 and many others wars before and after. Your point is?

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Of course it doesn't, I'm just rather suspicious as to why this has come up now. I highly doubt the veterans themselves could care less (but I am happy to be proven wrong).

Same reason Jack Johnson the boxer received a pardon 100+ years after being wrongly convicted. Passionate people petition on their behalf because they feel an injustice was done at the time.