beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
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Sweden’s Coronovirus strategy will soon be the worlds
- Thread starter Albion Dan
- Start date
It is pretty established by now, through further investigations, that the travel patterns of Swedes/people living in Sweden are the main cause for why we had significantly higher number of cases. Stockholm and its population are much more similar to the cities you mention when it comes to travel patterns compared to the other Nordic capitals.
Things are looking good now though. Stockholm, not surprisingly, seems to have a high level of immunity now. We had zero deaths a few days ago, while the numbers are rising in Finland, Denmark and Norway. We will see within in a year what strategy turned out most succesful. The "we don’t need to wait" thing you wrote is incredibly naive, as if this pandemic is already over - it isnt, but if it is over anywhere - its most likely here. I wouldnt be surprised if the other Nordic countries will have similar death tolls to us in the end.
Weststander
Well-known member
Where’s that undisputed evidence that Sweden has an international hub airport, with passenger travel patterns to match, and that’s the undisputed cause of a massively higher death rate than Denmark etc? Sauce, please.
The recent rises in deaths in Denmark, Finland and Norway are tiny.
Airport? Who said anything about airports? The fact that the airports in Copenhagen and Oslo are a bit larger than the biggest of the four serving Stockholm dont change the fact that Stockholm is the financial centre of the Nordic region:
Among the Forbes Global 2000 companies that have established operations in the Nordic region with regional headquarters, about 64 percent have chosen to locate their regional headquarters in Sweden, 20 percent in Denmark and 8 and 9 percent in Norway and Finland respectively.
Big business means a lot of people going to Stockholm also travel a lot. Sweden also got a lot of immigrants - while in the beginning it was assumed that most spreaders of the virus got it on skiing vacations in i.e. northern Italy, they now believe that a lot of cases also came from the Middle East and China.
As for the skiing trips that had large impact, Danes dont ski. Norway is obsessed with skiing and got no reason whatsoever to travel abroad to do it, and if they do they generally go to Sweden for economic reasons. If a Swede wants to go skiing, we are far more likely to spend a week in a world class ski resort in Italy than a world class ski resort in Norway, where everything is 3x as expensive as anywhere else. Sure, a lot go to the ski resorts in Sweden as well but 10 years of lack of snow has made it very popular to go with the safer choice and go to northern Italy.
Yes the increase is relatively small this far but as we've seen it can snowball very quickly. Both the Danes and the Norwegians are treating this like a normal summer, going abroad as usual etc, while 9/10 Swedes decided to stay in Sweden. Its as if the lockdown caused both a desire to use the freedom to the maximum and a lack of respect for the potential consequences of this virus. Here, as you know, we have had high numbers of deaths and generally keep the " freedom with responsibility" attitude.
Weststander
Well-known member
That’s not indisputable scientific evidence that the travel patterns of Swedes/people living in Sweden was the main cause behind Sweden being the CV19 death capital of the Nordic states.
Just speculation. I’ve seen similar unproven theories on why Belgians suffered badly, but then millions of Germans head to Italy and Austria skiing every winter, yet have fared well. I’ve skied all over Europe, other than natives, Alpine resorts are dominated by Russians, Germans, Belgiums, Dutch and Brits. With a smattering of Scandinavians in Ischgl, Solden and St Anton.
Couldn’t it just be that Sweden, Florida and some other US states, are the herd immunity testing grounds of the world?
Your posts in April and May accepted that no lockdown was the cause of the very high death toll in Sweden, with an honest comment that the deaths of a bunch of older people (paraphrasing), might be a price worth paying to preserve mental health and to ensure that a virus doesn’t screw an economy.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
I believe this was pretty much on the cards for the U.K., until someone whispered in Boris’ ear!
Stockholm Syndrome
Member
- Jan 5, 2011
- 37
About one million Swedes traveled abroad in february and march during the school holidays (10% of the population!). Creating a completley different start to the pandemic in Sweden compared to other Nordic countries.
Sums the swedish situation up quite well:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html
Sums the swedish situation up quite well:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lloried-world-refusing-lock-having-laugh.html
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Problem is with herd immunity is we don't know how long people stay immune after catching it. So far as I understand even if you don't have the antibodies anymore the body potentially retains the ability to produce them if need be.
Any government building a strategy around herd immunity is taking a fairly massive risk with their population.
Any government building a strategy around herd immunity is taking a fairly massive risk with their population.
Stockholm Syndrome
Member
- Jan 5, 2011
- 37
But the swedish strategy isnt about acheiving herd immunity, even though that could be a secondary effect. The swedish strategy is about upholding sustainable social distancing . Thats why their calling social distancing a marathon, not a sprint.
Weststander
Well-known member
I think you’re right. A reality that real lives would lie behind the numbers.
RossyG
Well-known member
- Dec 20, 2014
- 2,630
Out of more than one million.
Anyone know how many die of the flu each year? A quick Google yielded nothing, but I’d have thought a similar figure.
darkwolf666
Well-known member
That's ok then, so those treating people with flu and Covid and any other infectious diseases can just roll over and die...
I really find some people's crass disregard for life unbelievable..
So the gov have an interesting choice to make (I think anyway)
Sweden is currently under the 20 cases per 100k to allow an airbridge.
Will they allow an airbridge which acknowledges the Swedish success in getting cases down ?
Sweden is currently under the 20 cases per 100k to allow an airbridge.
Will they allow an airbridge which acknowledges the Swedish success in getting cases down ?
Raise the limit on public gatherings to 500 from 50?
We had 2,500 at the Amex on Saturday.
Some people continue to struggle with the concept of 'avoidable'.
Some people find the best way to predict the future is to simply extrapolate. From a point of their choosing.
Some people measure the value of a plan on the basis of how strongly they feel about it.
As an impulsive and opinionated person I have reluctantly been persuaded of the value of caution, checks and balances and the need to accept that any plan may need to be ruthlessly modified if it appears to not be generating an acceptable outcome.
Some people find the best way to predict the future is to simply extrapolate. From a point of their choosing.
Some people measure the value of a plan on the basis of how strongly they feel about it.
As an impulsive and opinionated person I have reluctantly been persuaded of the value of caution, checks and balances and the need to accept that any plan may need to be ruthlessly modified if it appears to not be generating an acceptable outcome.