"Student fees may have to rise or be diverted from teaching."

[TomandJerry]

Universities face a new blow to their finances after the main pension fund deficit soared to £17.5bn.

The Universities Superannuation Scheme now has the largest pensions deficit of any UK pension fund after it increased by £9bn last year.

One expert said student fees may have to rise or be diverted from teaching.

But a USS spokesperson said the pensions were "secure, backed by a solid investment portfolio and the strength of sponsoring employers."

The USS funds pensions for academics who are mostly based in the pre-1992 universities, and has more than 390,000 members.

'Less money for teaching'
To ensure the fund remains solvent, the USS will have to submit a plan to the pensions regulator to reduce the size of the deficit, which was first reported in The Financial Times.

That could mean cutting the value of future pay-outs, increasing staff contributions or raising employer contributions, putting pressure on university budget"

 

[dazzer6666]

All bollocks. JC will cover it all #moneytree

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Well, that's my pension ****ed.

 

[studio150]

Welcome to the real world, no doubt many have already experienced the closing of their final salary pension scheme and a transfer to one where the employee takes all the risks on future performance,
It must be time for such public sector schemes to end.

 

[El Presidente]

Welcome to the real world, no doubt many have already experienced the closing of their final salary pension scheme and a transfer to one where the employee takes all the risks on future performance,
It must be time for such public sector schemes to end.

Employers were more than happy to take pensions holidays and rebates when defined benefit schemes were performing well. Since that scenario reversed they've used employees as the fall guys, (executive pay has far outstripped performance average wage increases and company profitability).

If this happens to the police, fire service, army and health pension schemes too, this would be very harsh on people who a few weeks ago were being lauded as heroes for the risks they took to prevent the public from disasters such as Grenfell and terrorist attacks.

 

[Ernest]

Employers were more than happy to take pensions holidays and rebates when defined benefit schemes were performing well. Since that scenario reversed they've used employees as the fall guys, (executive pay has far outstripped performance average wage increases and company profitability).

If this happens to the police, fire service, army and health pension schemes too, this would be very harsh on people who a few weeks ago were being lauded as heroes for the risks they took to prevent the public from disasters such as Grenfell and terrorist attacks.

I'd imagine any kind of action over pensions would provoke a general strike and the downfall of the Tory party forever , will they be stupid enough to do so

 

[dazzer6666]

I'd imagine any kind of action over pensions would provoke a general strike and the downfall of the Tory party forever , will they be stupid enough to do so

Absolutely. Public service salaries are crap, it's the pensions that keep a vast number doing the job.

 

[Buzzer]

Here's a radical solution. Pare back on the number of students entering Universities, get rid of the nonsense degrees that have sprung up as a consequence and return to a far healthier mix of universities and vocational colleges and institutes of higher education.

The ideological dogma that more or less every young adult should go to university was flawed from the get-go.

 

[dazzer6666]

Here's a radical solution. Pare back on the number of students entering Universities, get rid of the nonsense degrees that have sprung up as a consequence and return to a far healthier mix of universities and vocational colleges and institutes of higher education.

The ideological dogma that more or less every young adult should go to university was flawed from the get-go.

Spot on. Bliar is to blame.........

 

[Buzzer]

Absolutely. Public service salaries are crap, it's the pensions that keep a vast number doing the job.

Not necessarily true. A lot are crap but there are a lot of public sector agencies with very competitive salaries. The obvious reason being that the agencies I'm thinking about are specialist bodies overseeing highly technical and lucrative industries (finance, law, medicine etc) where they need to recruit people proficient enough. Also within the mainstream public sector organisations there's specialists earning good money but for the vast majority of civil servants, health workers, local government workers it's very tough and a lot on barely above minimum wage and/or on zero-hour contracts.

And usually what happens is that when one side points out say, the thousands of care workers asking for money, there will suddenly appear on social media a lot of fake outrage about an advertised job at a hospital with a silly job title (almost certainly referencing a minority group too) and a salary of £45k a year. And this will be used as an argument that the public sector is a cushy number.

 

[dazzer6666]

Not necessarily true. A lot are crap but there are a lot of public sector agencies with very competitive salaries. The obvious reason being that the agencies I'm thinking about are specialist bodies overseeing highly technical and lucrative industries (finance, law, medicine etc) where they need to recruit people proficient enough. Also within the mainstream public sector organisations there's specialists earning good money but for the vast majority of civil servants, health workers, local government workers it's very tough and a lot on barely above minimum wage and/or on zero-hour contracts.

And usually what happens is that when one side points out say, the thousands of care workers asking for money, there will suddenly appear on social media a lot of fake outrage about an advertised job at a hospital with a silly job title (almost certainly referencing a minority group too) and a salary of £45k a year. And this will be used as an argument that the public sector is a cushy number.

Agree, but they are a relative minority....

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Here's a radical solution. Pare back on the number of students entering Universities, get rid of the nonsense degrees that have sprung up as a consequence and return to a far healthier mix of universities and vocational colleges and institutes of higher education.

The ideological dogma that more or less every young adult should go to university was flawed from the get-go.

This, this and this x 100.

 

[Big G]

It doesn't matter....Jeremy Corbyn will get it all written off for them anyway won't he??

 

[Bulldog]

It doesn't matter....Jeremy Corbyn will get it all written off for them anyway won't he??

Erm, no, he has never said he would bail out this type of pension fund. It was in surplus in 2008 when the Tories came to power so maybe Mrs Mayhem should bail it out. She has found the magic money tree so give it another shake and all is well.

 

[larus]

Absolutely. Public service salaries are crap, it's the pensions that keep a vast number doing the job.

From what I read recently, this is no longer the case for some/many in the public sector. This used to be the case, but has changed. Many in the private sector have had wages freezes/cuts since the financial crash as well.

A big problem is expectations though IMO. So many expect(ed) to wok for 30 years and then retire on 2/3 final salary. So, they start work say at 20, retire at 50 and live until 75/80. It logically does not make sense that you can generate enough 'wealth' in 30 years to cover your consumption for your life. Until the is addressed in the public sector these type of issues won't get addressed.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Here's a radical solution. Pare back on the number of students entering Universities, get rid of the nonsense degrees that have sprung up as a consequence and return to a far healthier mix of universities and vocational colleges and institutes of higher education.

The ideological dogma that more or less every young adult should go to university was flawed from the get-go.

So much this.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So much this.

It might be an idea to start from the bottom and sort out the schooling system first. These days it's forever an argument between academies, free schools, state and grammar. No one seems to have an idea about what's best.

 

[El Presidente]

So much this.

I agree too, but over 60% of those aged 18 don't go to university.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Welcome to the real world, no doubt many have already experienced the closing of their final salary pension scheme and a transfer to one where the employee takes all the risks on future performance,
It must be time for such public sector schemes to end.

They ended 5 years ago for new employees, and going forward for current employees. For folk like me who have been paying into a final salary scheme for 35 years, we have an expectation that the terms advertised when we paid the money, up to any change going forward, would be met. If you get a mortgage on your house, pay it for 25 years, then go to collect the deeds, you don't expect to be told, 'sorry old son, we cocked up our risk assessment, and now you can't have the house unless you pay another £50 thousand'. I have been paying £500 a month due to the need to make up for my shortage of employment years - university academics don't start their proper job till they are late 20s at the earliest. I accepted that during the last 5 years and the next few, the acruing benefit going forward will be based on average rather than final salary. What I fear now is that my 'pot' will be 'adjusted' to take account of 'prevailing economic circumstances'. In other words the buggers are not going to meet the longstanding contractual arrangements. If the pension company (for it is a private company, not the university itself) try to pull that stunt then there will be consequences.

I haven't read the whole thread but for the message to which I reply perhaps there is a sense that we academics sit around in tweed jackets drinking sherry, while our secretaries send off our letters to Nature, and our children go from prep school to Eton. Far from it. The money is shit. In the early 90s, I nearly lost my (small end of terrace victorian) house because my take home pay (£1000) did not allow me to live and pay the mortgage (which crept up to £800 thanks to Lawson's boom and bust). It has taken dcades to get my finances in order. It comes as little surprise that just as I am about to slump into the prone posture of retirement, the incompetant beast of capital is sneaking up, once again, to roger me up the backside. Marvellous.

With respect to student fees, I just don't understand that. The universities, which are nominally independent but are a actually nationalised industry like the 'health service', give mone from themselves and from our pay packet to a private company to manage our pensions. It is for the company to take responsibility. I can only assume that the manager in chief (the government) thinks there are so many staff involved it will destroy the higher education sector if we all get shafted, and so is going into panic mode, scoping around for a solution, and mooting 'soak the students'. That will never work.

Personally I do not think we can afford our higher education sector. Where I work we teach medical students, among others, at a prestigious teaching hospital, and other allied health professionals. We also have highly ranked research. However the latter is mostly fluff and operates like football, massive income, massive spend, but not a lot achieved). Most of the UK provides scond rate degrees with little real value (exacerbated by Mr Tony turning simple polytchnics into universities) and undertakes little or no rsearch. We could close 70% of them, but the effect would be catestrophic, since there would be a sudddn glut of 16-21 year olds looking for jobs formerly taken by 21 year olds with a degree in sanitation management from the university of cntral England (Neasdon polytechnic). Personally I am gnerally in favour of extended education; however it seems very clear now that the nation cannot afford to pay for it.

This is all separate however from the massive cock up overseen by the private company that manags the pensions. Perhaps I should take my money and run, now, before I'm told 'sorry, the cupboard is bare'.

 

[larus]

It might be an idea to start from the bottom and sort out the schooling system first. These days it's forever an argument between academies, free schools, state and grammar. No one seems to have an idea about what's best.

It's generally accepted the grammar schools are a better environment (as so many Labour MPs put their kids in them if they can as well as the Tories). We need to accept that not all kids are academically minded, so maybe we should reconsider what education is for. How many people do jobs which don't really require much in the way of traditional education (apart from an understanding of the language and basic maths)?

I was unfortunate enough to go to Tideway. There were many kids there who had no interest in education and were disruptive. Also, the standard of teaching was poor IMO. So how do we address the issue of those who want to get on and study being in the same school as those who don't?