[Brighton] Steve Foster trying to get sent off in 1983 - I don't understand!

[Goldstone Rapper]

I've just interviewed Fozzie for Viva Brighton magazine and just wanted to ask a question as I don't completely understand how suspensions work.

Albion's last six games in 1982/83 were:
Notts County (a)
Birmingham (a)
Man City (h)
Norwich (a)
Man Utd (Wembley) FA Cup Final
Man Utd (Wembley) FA Cup Final Replay

As you may recall on 30th April 1983, Steve Foster received a yellow card against Notts County which meant he was suspended for the FA Cup Final in May due to his accumulation of yellow cards. Following the Notts County match, he played the next two matches against Birmingham and Manchester City before not featuring against Norwich and then the FA Cup Final. After that, he was eligible for the Cup Final replay.

He was under the impression that if he got a red via another yellow card against Notts County, he would have been eligible for the Cup Final. Is that correct that a sending-up would have meant missing the next match, but a suspension incurred by accumulation of yellows would mean missing games a few weeks down the line?

In the Notts County game, Foster tried very hard to get a second yellow card, even catching the ball at one point and handing it to the ref, but the ref refused to give him another yellow.

I asked Steve why he didn't chin the ref and he says he would have missed three matches through violent conduct and that would have meant missing the Cup Final. However, if the three match ban came straight after, he'd have missed the Birmingham, Man City and Norwich games and been available for the Final.

Anyway, if someone can explain the logistics to me I'd appreciate it!

 

[aolstudios]

I never understood this either.
Also surely getting a yellow is easy? Take your shirt off. Take ages taking a free-kick or throw-in and so on.[/Q
It wasn't, as the ref knew that's what he was trying to do

 

[drew]

I never understood this either.
Also surely getting a yellow is easy? Take your shirt off. Take ages taking a free-kick or throw-in and so on.[/Q
It wasn't, as the ref knew that's what he was trying to do

Plus in 1983 you didn't get a yellow card for taking your shirt off. In fact, in those days nobody thought of taking their shirt off. Why would you? I still don't understand why in a moment of euphoria the first thing that comes into some minds is to take off the shirt!

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

I've just interviewed Fozzie for Viva Brighton magazine and just wanted to ask a question as I don't completely understand how suspensions work.

Albion's last six games in 1982/83 were:
Notts County (a)
Birmingham (a)
Man City (h)
Norwich (a)
Man Utd (Wembley) FA Cup Final
Man Utd (Wembley) FA Cup Final Replay

As you may recall on 30th April 1983, Steve Foster received a yellow card against Notts County which meant he was suspended for the FA Cup Final in May due to his accumulation of yellow cards. Following the Notts County match, he played the next two matches against Birmingham and Manchester City before not featuring against Norwich and then the FA Cup Final. After that, he was eligible for the Cup Final replay.

He was under the impression that if he got a red via another yellow card against Notts County, he would have been eligible for the Cup Final. Is that correct that a sending-up would have meant missing the next match, but a suspension incurred by accumulation of yellows would mean missing games a few weeks down the line?

In the Notts County game, Foster tried very hard to get a second yellow card, even catching the ball at one point and handing it to the ref, but the ref refused to give him another yellow.

I asked Steve why he didn't chin the ref and he says he would have missed three matches through violent conduct and that would have meant missing the Cup Final. However, if the three match ban came straight after, he'd have missed the Birmingham, Man City and Norwich games and been available for the Final.

Anyway, if someone can explain the logistics to me I'd appreciate it!

Things have changed a lot since those days. Taking your shirt off wasn't an offence as it wasn't something done that I can remember. No such thing as a three match ban for violent conduct either back then. Also don't think suspensions came in for the next game at that time but there was usually a period of time before they kicked in.

So, having a yellow card was an accumulation (10 yellows I think) so was a two match ban which coincided with the final. If he got a red, this didn't count towards his yellow card count so would only have been a one match ban and left him free to play for in the final

 

[Eeyore]

Plus in 1983 you didn't get a yellow card for taking your shirt off. In fact, in those days nobody thought of taking their shirt off. Why would you? I still don't understand why in a moment of euphoria the first thing that comes into some minds is to take off the shirt!

Although I'm not sure that Albion's league form that year warranted much euphoria.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Things have changed a lot since those days. Taking your shirt off wasn't an offence as it wasn't something done that I can remember. No such thing as a three match ban for violent conduct either back then. Also don't think suspensions came in for the next game at that time but there was usually a period of time before they kicked in.

So, having a yellow card was an accumulation (10 yellows I think) so was a two match ban which coincided with the final. If he got a red, this didn't count towards his yellow card count so would only have been a one match ban and left him free to play for in the final

Thanks for explaining! What you say is certainly consistent with the fact Chris Ramsey got sent off against Tottenham in the league that month (for two yellow cards) and then played the next two matches before being suspended for the FA Cup Semi-Final.

It all leaves me to ponder how the referee was so on-the-ball in terms of knowing what Foster was up to. Were referees briefed on how many yellow cards each player had accumulated before a match and which games they would miss? Also, if three match bans for violent conduct didn't exist in those days, maybe he should have thumped the ref!

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

If I remember correctly a red card in those days was automatic but the totting up was open to verification and possibly a hearing before the due banning but always come in to effect two games after. Hence knowing a sending off would negate the booking and the hearing. A game later and the ban would be after the final but before the reply.

 

[drew]

Although I'm not sure that Albion's league form that year warranted much euphoria.

Form was poor, hence the relegation, but we beat Arsenal, Tottenham and Man Utd that season so surely moments of euphoria did arise.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

If I remember correctly a red card in those days was automatic but the totting up was open to verification and possibly a hearing before the due banning but always come in to effect two games after. Hence knowing a sending off would negate the booking and the hearing. A game later and the ban would be after the final but before the reply.

Looking through some sendings-off around that time, a two-match delay seemed to be in place before suspension. Gerry Ryan got sent-off on the opening day the previous season and played the next two matches before surrendering his number 11 shirt.

 

[Hyperion]

I never understood this either.
Also surely getting a yellow is easy? Take your shirt off. Take ages taking a free-kick or throw-in and so on.

Was taking your shirt off a bookable offence in 1983?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Was taking your shirt off a bookable offence in 1983?

Pretty sure it wasn't. It wasn't in vogue at the time so there wasn't any regulation about it. I think players enjoyed several seasons of being able to take their shirt off in the 1990s without fear of a booking before there was a crackdown.

 

[Hyperion]

Surely it would come under wearing the correct kit, or whatever the phrasing is? Or is that a more "modern" rule? Like you can't wear glasses or hats without the referees consent and you can't remove boots and shinpads (i know they didn't wear them then) and stuff.

I don't remember anyone ever being booked for that or anyone even doing it back in the day to be honest

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Fair enough. Sounds like a very different age. Makes me realise I like the fact the suspensions occur straight away now though. Seems odd to delay them, though maybe it took longer to do all the paperwork pre-internet and more computer technology.

There probably was a communication difficulty at one time in the past but by the early 1980s, the prevalence of telephones would have made the two game delay an unnecessary carry-over from a previous era.

What does surprise me is that suspensions were incurred in one competition and then the punishment was carried out in another e.g. Foster getting ten yellow cards in the Football League and then was suspended in the FA Cup. Given the difficult relationship between the Football League and the FA at the time, this level of coordination seems well-managed, even though it came at Fozzie's cost.

 

[drew]

There probably was a communication difficulty at one time in the past but by the early 1980s, the prevalence of telephones would have made the two game delay an unnecessary carry-over from a previous era.

What does surprise me is that suspensions were incurred in one competition and then the punishment was carried out in another e.g. Foster getting ten yellow cards in the Football League and then was suspended in the FA Cup. Given the difficult relationship between the Football League and the FA at the time, this level of coordination seems well-managed, even though it came at Fozzie's cost.

Don't forget though that the FA would have had to have received the ref's match report, probably by post. Also, bear in mind that not every match was filmed so there were procedures to cater for that. Yes, a lot of games were on their local stations but you could email the digital version for the FA to peruse!

 

[AZ Gull]

I've just interviewed Fozzie for Viva Brighton magazine and just wanted to ask a question as I don't completely understand how suspensions work.

Albion's last six games in 1982/83 were:
Notts County (a)
Birmingham (a)
Man City (h)
Norwich (a)
Man Utd (Wembley) FA Cup Final
Man Utd (Wembley) FA Cup Final Replay

As you may recall on 30th April 1983, Steve Foster received a yellow card against Notts County which meant he was suspended for the FA Cup Final in May due to his accumulation of yellow cards. Following the Notts County match, he played the next two matches against Birmingham and Manchester City before not featuring against Norwich and then the FA Cup Final. After that, he was eligible for the Cup Final replay.

He was under the impression that if he got a red via another yellow card against Notts County, he would have been eligible for the Cup Final. Is that correct that a sending-up would have meant missing the next match, but a suspension incurred by accumulation of yellows would mean missing games a few weeks down the line?

In the Notts County game, Foster tried very hard to get a second yellow card, even catching the ball at one point and handing it to the ref, but the ref refused to give him another yellow.

I asked Steve why he didn't chin the ref and he says he would have missed three matches through violent conduct and that would have meant missing the Cup Final. However, if the three match ban came straight after, he'd have missed the Birmingham, Man City and Norwich games and been available for the Final.

Anyway, if someone can explain the logistics to me I'd appreciate it!

I believe this was the subject of one of Spencer Vignes' articles in the programme in the last season or two. As it was explained in said article:

"The booking took Foster over 31 points, triggering an automatic two-match suspension. He tried to get booked again as a red card would have resulted in a one-game suspension. ... He committed around 22 fouls in the second-half, at one point jumping up to catch the ball and showing it to the referee, but he refused to book him again."

I would guess that there were two separate types of punishment; red cards incurred suspension in their own right, whereas single bookings accumulated under a points system with suspensions occurring at set milestones. If I remember rightly, ALL suspensions took effect after a two-week delay, so the second yellow would have caused him to miss just the Norwich match.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Ask this bloke!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qoymGCDYzU​

 

[SouthCoastOwl]

What the hell did he do to get the first yellow!? Kill a man?

Looking at the picture it must have a shorts height violation, he was wearing them too low!

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

It all leaves me to ponder how the referee was so on-the-ball in terms of knowing what Foster was up to. Were referees briefed on how many yellow cards each player had accumulated before a match and which games they would miss? Also, if three match bans for violent conduct didn't exist in those days, maybe he should have thumped the ref!

Back in those days the FA Cup final was a much bigger deal than it is now and with us going to our first final, there was a lot of focus on us. I have a feeling that the Notts County game was the last one before the cut off so there was a lot in the press about the fact Foster needed to avoid a booking so the ref would have been aware of this.

It would be great if someone had the old Radio Brighton commentary of the match as I guess whoever was commentating (Neil Coppendale?) would have been having great fun describing this.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

The referees knew which players had a reputation for dishing it out a bit and been aware of who was one yellow away from suspension and the consequences of issuing a 2nd yellow that close to the end of the season. Suspensions didn't come in immediately and it could be a fortnight before the ban came into effect.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

The FA Cup Final was such a big deal in 1983 it was considered a bigger game than the World Cup Final. Don't you remember the club went to the High Court to get the ban overturned the week leading up to the final. It even featured as a main item on the news at 5:45 with Leaonard Parkin.

HB&B 1983 FA Cup Final expert.