[Politics] Starmer v Sunak *** Official Match Thread ***

[pb21]

I'm not sure it's complete BS.

Labour have made a bunch of promises and have not costed them up properly. Tories are trying to coax this out of them. I think the lie is the fact that it was a fully independent analysis.

It's a reasonable point , all these improvements to the NHS , increased defence spending, more money for stopping the boats etc .... Where's it coming from the country is broke.

They have guessed some numbers, added them up and then divided that by the number of 'workign families' and come up with £2k/family and had the audacity its been fully independently assessed.

Its bollox.

 

[Easy 10]

I'm not sure it's complete BS.

Labour have made a bunch of promises and have not costed them up properly. Tories are trying to coax this out of them. I think the lie is the fact that it was a fully independent analysis.

It's a reasonable point , all these improvements to the NHS , increased defence spending, more money for stopping the boats etc .... Where's it coming from the country is broke.

Sorry, I'm not having that. It IS complete bullshit, because it was categorically claimed that it was independently sourced from civil servants and the Treasury itself. It was such a monumental CARGO CONTAINER of bullshit that the Treasury itself had to quickly come out to distance themselves from it.

By all means question where the funding is coming from to back up policies, there's nothing wrong with that. But to just blatantly make stuff up and pass it off as truth to gain a spike in the polls - I mean, come on.

Shameful Tory DNA. Its Boris-esque.

 

[dwayne]

The point is they are guessing. In politics live they gave an example of how they would find more PCSOs through better procurement in the police.

According to Daniel Finkelstein in the times today it's common practice for over 40.years for manifesto pledges to be costed up by the opposition. This then forces labour to counter, so it's not a dastardly tactic. But sneaky to say it was done independently.

 

[essbee1]

BBC news today reporting that the 2k figure is very far-fetched and not the sole work re: figures of the Treasury.

We're being lied to .......yet again!

 

[dwayne]

Sorry, I'm not having that. It IS complete bullshit, because it was categorically claimed that it was independently sourced from civil servants and the Treasury itself. It was such a monumental CARGO CONTAINER of bullshit that the Treasury itself had to quickly come out to distance themselves from it.

By all means question where the funding is coming from to back up policies, there's nothing wrong with that. But to just blatantly make stuff up and pass it off as truth to gain a spike in the polls - I mean, come on.

Shameful Tory DNA. Its Boris-esque.

Without seeing the detail we are just assuming they made up the numbers. Think the proof is in the pudding.

 

[Flounce]

It’s all pantomime Starmer is going to win the election by a landslide, so who cares who comes across best on a wanky TV debate?

 

[pb21]

Without seeing the detail we are just assuming they made up the numbers. Think the proof is in the pudding.

They dont know the numbers, they had to have assumed.

Also they have assumed their number is coming from workign families as opposed to any other source of income.

Its bollox.

 

[Easy 10]

The point is the Mail and the Express ran it as their headline. And they won't be correcting it tomorrow, that's for sure. A lot of people won't know it was a lie - and take it at face-value. The Tories know this and don't care. It's a tactic that works very well for them.

Starmer should have attacked the validity of it the first time Sunak mentioned it.

No, I think he's probably played it well. This has been exposed today, and its supplied Starmer with a shiny new stick with which to beat the slimy snake-oil salesman.

"How can you possibly take Sunak seriously, when he will sink to lies and disinformation such as this in order to try to fool you into your vote ? He promised honesty and integrity - instead, he is taking you all for MUGS"

- would be my line of attack, off the back of this PR fiasco. Use it. DESTROY him with it. Endlessly.

 

[dwayne]

They dont know the numbers, they had to have assumed.

Also they have assumed their number is coming from workign families as opposed to any other source of income.

Its bollox.

Yes but as I said previously. Parties have been using this practice for 40 years. There's probably some assumptions but it's up to labour to tell us where the money is coming from for all these shiny promises.

 

[GJN1]

Without seeing the detail we are just assuming they made up the numbers. Think the proof is in the pudding.

Oh Dwayne...

 

[GJN1]

According to Daniel Finkelstein in the times today it's common practice for over 40.years for manifesto pledges to be costed up by the opposition. This then forces labour to counter, so it's not a dastardly tactic. But sneaky to say it was done independently.

For 'sneaky' read 'BS'.

 

[Machiavelli]

Not sure that matters. Daily Mail and Express readers aren't swing voters. The average Daily Mail / Express reader would be voting Tory regardless, thanks to years and years worth of indoctrination.

Mail and Sun readers are surprisingly diverse in who they vote for. The popular press undoubtedly engage in indoctrination though, and it's difficult to deny that it has some effect, how much is far trickier to ascertain.

 

[peterward]

Well thats nonsense imho.

It says nothing more than the national split and people have already made up their minds. If youre one of the many who hates the Tories and thinks Sunak is a c*ck, despite him fairing better, youre still voting Starmer won the debate and vice versa.

Actually feel pretty objective and agnostic, dont particularly like or truly hate either, Starmer had a couple of moments, Sunak performed better overall.

 

[HH Brighton]

I'm not sure it's complete BS.

Labour have made a bunch of promises and have not costed them up properly. Tories are trying to coax this out of them. I think the lie is the fact that it was a fully independent analysis.

It's a reasonable point , all these improvements to the NHS , increased defence spending, more money for stopping the boats etc .... Where's it coming from the country is broke.

He laid it out last night, close the loop holes on independent schools, non-dom tax and tax on energy companies. How can he lay it out more simply?

 

[ROSM]

According to Daniel Finkelstein in the times today it's common practice for over 40.years for manifesto pledges to be costed up by the opposition. This then forces labour to counter, so it's not a dastardly tactic. But sneaky to say it was done independently.

But as a manifesto hasn't been published yet then it is of course , bollox.

 

[Machiavelli]

According to Daniel Finkelstein in the times today it's common practice for over 40.years for manifesto pledges to be costed up by the opposition. This then forces labour to counter, so it's not a dastardly tactic. But sneaky to say it was done independently.

The same Tory peer who hasn't been subjected to any scrutiny for writing a column in which he claims that arguments that make comparisons between the number of Palestinian/Muslim and Jewish deaths/lives are wrong?

 

[Nobby]

Without seeing the detail we are just assuming they made up the numbers. Think the proof is in the pudding.

Which pudding though?

It wasn't sneaky, it was a bare faced lie to state they were Treasury figures
And as they're lying about where the figures have come from, then you have to assume the numbers are made up to suit

 

[pb21]

Yes but as I said previously. Parties have been using this practice for 40 years. There's probably some assumptions but it's up to labour to tell us where the money is coming from for all these shiny promises.

Yes, but its not for the Tory party to make up a number, dividide it by the number of families and say its what independant people have concluded, like its some kind of gospel, it stinks. Parties have not been usign this practice for years.

If Sunak had said we, the Tory party, have estimated that your plans will cost x Billion, how will you fund this, will it be through taxign workign familes £2k? that would be different, but he didnt.

He thought he would be clever, lie and obfuscate, like his ex boss Johnson used to do all the time and look where that ended up.

 

[Napper]

It’s all pantomime Starmer is going to win the election by a landslide, so who cares who comes across best on a wanky TV debate?

its a bit like the Albion winning.

Yes , 3 points is all that matters but if you can play some champagne stuff in doing it , then its all the more enjoyable.

Sunak a few of the fans he has left got a bit excited last night. Today they are firmly back under their rocks

Glorious

Just a shame the election isnt until September so could enjoy this Tory death all summer

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

PMSL

I couldn’t have been more insulted if he’d called me a Fishead.