St Pauli

[Tesco in Disguise]

recent piece from the other theroux.

St Pauli: a socialist football club in Hamburg's red light district - video | Travel | guardian.co.uk

 

[Buzzer]

Yawn.

Football and politics - just say no.

 

[8ace]

Have they been relegated yet?

 

[Scotty Mac]

Yawn.

Football and politics - just say no.

this

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

Yawn.

Football and politics - just say no.

agreed. i think football, like life, should operate in a thoughtless, moral vacuum.

there's nothing worse than when power is transferred to caring fans from those who are just trying to turn a profit.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

Yawn.

Football and politics - just say no.

Different culture - wouldn't want to see politics infiltrate the Albion (or most clubs in England) because they are the one club in this city and they should represent everyone in it. We represent a place and the pride of that place - which in itself borders on politics.

But elsewhere where you have the choice, why shouldn't the clubs represent more than that? People have a choice, if you're not left-wing in Hamburg, support Hamburg. If neither big Glasgow side is your thing, support Partick, St Mirren, Motherwell etc. If you live in Barcelona but aren't a Catalan nationalist, support Espanyol. Etc etc etc.

 

[Wilko]

I agree with the football and politics thing don't mix BUT I cannot help watch the clip and nod along in agreement. To follow a club in the 80's that turned its back on racism and hooliganism would certainly have attracted me, those are DEFINITELY two things that have no place in football imho.

 

[mona]

Here's an idea for a poll:
SV Hamburg v St Pauli

 

[Buzzer]

By its very definition it polarises its potential fanbase and is (in my opinion) less effective in removing the hatred. I'll try to explain a bit better:

Just say for instance that BHA completely embraced the 'gay' tag in an official capacity - or even adopted the Green Party. If I were a Palace fan am I now more likely to vote Green or support anti-homophobic initiatives? The simple answer is no because of the official association with Brighton. It's far better to try to have as broad a political spectrum as possible in your fanbase so that those trying to rid the game of hate don't get caught up in inter-club rivalry. And the best way to have as broad a political spectrum as possible is not to mix football with politics in the first place.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

To follow a club in the 80's that turned its back on racism and hooliganism would certainly have attracted me, those are DEFINITELY two things that have no place in football imho.

you're making a normative judgement. get out.

 

[El Presidente]

By its very definition it polarises its potential fanbase and is (in my opinion) less effective in removing the hatred. I'll try to explain a bit better:

Just say for instance that BHA completely embraced the 'gay' tag in an official capacity - or even adopted the Green Party. If I were a Palace fan am I now more likely to vote Green or support anti-homophobic initiatives? The simple answer is no because of the official association with Brighton. It's far better to try to have as broad a political spectrum as possible in your fanbase so that those trying to rid the game of hate don't get caught up in inter-club rivalry. And the best way to have as broad a political spectrum as possible is not to mix football with politics in the first place.

Good point, I was in charge of the mobile phone contract at my previous employer, and would not consider Vodafone because of their connection with Manchester United, the same principle could easily extend to politics.

Nothing wrong with a club having principles though.

 

[mona]

Good point, I was in charge of the mobile phone contract at my previous employer, and would not consider Vodafone because of their connection with Manchester United, the same principle could easily extend to politics.

Nothing wrong with a club having principles though.

I shout abuse at my tv every time the Churchill Insurance ad comes on for the same reason.

 

[El Presidente]

I shout abuse at my tv every time the Churchill Insurance ad comes on for the same reason.

I took out insurance with Churchill, then left my car unlocked with the key in the lock in the middle of Moss Side, JUST so I could put in a claim when it was nicked, so that the toerags lost money on me.

 

[Buzzer]

Good point, I was in charge of the mobile phone contract at my previous employer, and would not consider Vodafone because of their connection with Manchester United, the same principle could easily extend to politics.

Nothing wrong with a club having principles though.

I was the same about Vodafone and agree about clubs should have principles but what our resident Wolfie Smith, TiD, seems to think is that you can't have morals (his words) or principles (El Pres's words) without giving it a political slant.

 

[olliwarne]

Yawn.

Football and politics - just say no.

agreed 100%

 

[fork me]

I agree with the football and politics thing don't mix BUT I cannot help watch the clip and nod along in agreement. To follow a club in the 80's that turned its back on racism and hooliganism would certainly have attracted me, those are DEFINITELY two things that have no place in football imho.

This.

I liked that video. You can label anything "politics", but what the fans there are doing seems more to me like proecting their identitiy than politics in the normal sense.

Note also that their "politics" didn;t start with them being political, it started with them OPPOSING far right politics that had already infiltrated clubs.

It'd be interesting to compare it with Omonia over here. They founded in 1948. APOEL, the only club in Nicosia at the time, declared allegience to right wing Greek political parties and made their players do so also. Those that refused were sacked from the club. They formed their own - Omonia, which by default (1948 was a turbulent time in Greek politics, there was a civil war going on) became left wiing as fans who didn't want fascism moved to Omonia.

The result of all of this was the politicisation of Cypriot football, something which was (and still is) technically banned, but it was APOEL who actually politicised it. The sacked players didn't intend to form a political club, they just wanted to play football.

To this day, Omonia fans wear pictures of Che Guavera on their shirt, and chant "f*** your nation" in Greek to wind up the nationalistic APOEL fans. Of course because of all this Cyprus is still stuck in the 80s as far as football violence is concerned.

Here in Limassol AEL are considered the left wing side (although their younger fans in particular use a lot more anarchist symbolism than socialist) and Apollon the right wing. Here though, it was AEL who politicised, and Apollon broke away.

I've been to loads of AEL games and the only one where there was a decent amount of away fans and yet no trouble was AEL - Omonia. It's the same when Apollon play APOEL, no trouble. The violence here is politically based, but it's a very loose base. Despite the slogans and the chants, the younger fans don't really give a toss about the politics.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

I was the same about Vodafone and agree about clubs should have principles but what our resident Wolfie Smith, TiD, seems to think is that you can't have morals (his words) or principles (El Pres's words) without giving it a political slant.

morals doesn't mean saving the whales, and politics doesn't mean campaigning for the labour party. just having an approach is politics. maybe it's on the breadth of definition of this term that is the cause of our dispute.

 

[fork me]

By its very definition it polarises its potential fanbase and is (in my opinion) less effective in removing the hatred. I'll try to explain a bit better:

Just say for instance that BHA completely embraced the 'gay' tag in an official capacity - or even adopted the Green Party. If I were a Palace fan am I now more likely to vote Green or support anti-homophobic initiatives? The simple answer is no because of the official association with Brighton. It's far better to try to have as broad a political spectrum as possible in your fanbase so that those trying to rid the game of hate don't get caught up in inter-club rivalry. And the best way to have as broad a political spectrum as possible is not to mix football with politics in the first place.

I agree with all of this, however, in most countries where there is a link, it wasn't that simple historically.

In the last example I gave, Omonia became a left wing club, not because they originally wanted to, but because left wing fans naturally left APOEL, who's board had made then right wing and nationalist. The players had a choice - declare their allegience to right wing parties, stop playing football or start their own club. That's a no brainer, they started their own club, the hardest of the three choices. The choice of non-political football wasn't there for them because the APOEL board had already politicised it.

Looking at St Pauli, their options were different. Football generally in Germany had attracted a huge racist element. They had a choice, ognore it and hope it goes away, or do something about it. They chose to do something about it, of course, once you become specifically anti-racist, that will attract fans who feel passionately about that to your club.

 

[rocker959]

Best bits - Atmosphere with non stop singing
Coming on to a rousing AC/DC track , maybe Motorhead can re-work ' Sussex by The Sea' for the Amex !!! Played live before first home match with Lemmy replacing the usual ' We are Motorhead etc with - We are ( BRIGHTON ) AND WE ARE REALLY GONNA f*** YOU UP !!!

 

[Wilko]

By its very definition it polarises its potential fanbase and is (in my opinion) less effective in removing the hatred. I'll try to explain a bit better:

Just say for instance that BHA completely embraced the 'gay' tag in an official capacity - or even adopted the Green Party. If I were a Palace fan am I now more likely to vote Green or support anti-homophobic initiatives? The simple answer is no because of the official association with Brighton. It's far better to try to have as broad a political spectrum as possible in your fanbase so that those trying to rid the game of hate don't get caught up in inter-club rivalry. And the best way to have as broad a political spectrum as possible is not to mix football with politics in the first place.

I agree with that as you actually only marginalise a city or community through politicising a club and it should never happen to team like Brighton, a club attracts people from all over Sussex. However, St Pauli was a reaction to the right wing element already instilled in football, so you could argue that politics was already there before St Pauli reacted.