Spanish Dave---Cheat? [Now with added poll]

[KZNSeagull]

Voted No, but it is a tricky area.

It was definitely a foul, so no cheating there, but the rolling around was totally unnecessary and shameful. However, if the Ref took that into account I would be surprised - not that this condones his rolling. I would hope that some of the other Brighton players had a word with him after the game, but that is possibly being a bit too hopeful. But he was not guilty of simulation as he was genuinely fouled and injured, but he is guilty of making a meal of it.

Had he not been fouled at all, then Yes, definite cheating.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I'd only bump it up to a cheat if he did it in the penalty box. There you gain a clear advantage by the action. Out on the wing a long way from the goal it's effect is greatly lessened.

Other than that it was the kind of thing that is common place in football and has been for a long time.

 

[APACHE]

If the standard of reffing was the same all over the world we wouldn't be having this debate but it's not. In nearly every league except the P/L if you foul a player like on sat. they go down and mostly the tackler gets booked. It might be the reason why this country doesn't do well at international level and doesn't produce top class skilful players, everyone else plays to a different view of the rules and tries to protect the player on the ball. Unless Dave's got eyes in the top of his head from where he was looking he wasn't looking to see if the ref was coming but looking at the Newcastle player who as a senior pro should have known better.

 

[drew]

All these people accusing him of cheating, do you actually accept that there was a foul or do you think he threw himself into Ameobi! He definitely rolled over once, maybe twice more than was necessary but he was definitely fouled, Ameobi's right knee catching Lopez just above his right knee. He was definitely limping for several minutes after the incident over by the east stand but those who watched on telly wouldn't have seen that.

Someone mentioned simulation but that relates to when you go down without even being touched

And whilst I accept that he rolled over a couple of times, even if he hadn't, the foul was late and a definite booking. Ameobi allowed himself to get wound up by El Abd which might explain why he clipped Dickers ankle and then came in late on Lopez.

I prefer not to see the exagerated roll but there are far worse things to eradicate in the game so I'm not going get on any high horse about spanish Dave and certainly not going to jump on the bandwagon of calling him a cheat.

 

[JBizzle]

No, not a cheat. Sure he overexaggerated the tackle but it was a foul and it was a yellow card. All it ended up doing was making sure the ref didn't miss it. Admittedly, 1 or 2 less rolls would have still got the job done but its hardly cheating.

It also wasn't a dive as he was actually fouled (and not in the Gareth Bale sense either of "there was any contact so its my right to go down"). Not great to see, but not worth all the attention either.

 

[nwgull]

He's a cheat in my eyes for the exaggerated rolling around, foul or not. Brian Clough would have publicly slated and probably dropped any of his players if they did that.

I hope Dave and the team get some feedback on the fans' feelings about this incident.

 

[JBizzle]

I'd only bump it up to a cheat if he did it in the penalty box. There you gain a clear advantage by the action. Out on the wing a long way from the goal it's effect is greatly lessened.

Other than that it was the kind of thing that is common place in football and has been for a long time.

Even then I still don't see it as cheating. A foul is a foul wherever it is and accentuating a fall when actually fouled is just making sure the foul / penalty is given. Its very different simulating a foul where there isn't even any contact / foul in the first place.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Of course he cheated. Imagine the uproar if Zaha had done that against us. The referee may well have sent Ameobi off anyway but that does not excuse the theatrics.

Very disappointed to see that from an Albion player, although El Abd has been guilty of quite a few dives in the past to get players sent off.

 

[Rugrat]

I'd only bump it up to a cheat if he did it in the penalty box. There you gain a clear advantage by the action. Out on the wing a long way from the goal it's effect is greatly lessened.

Other than that it was the kind of thing that is common place in football and has been for a long time.

I'd say it's a pretty large advantage knowing if my efforts are successful it will result in one of their men getting sent off!

 

[Hillian1]

Anyone who voted no really does need to remove their BHA tinted glasses.

If it was against us this forum would have gone into meltdown with enough righteous indignation to power a small town for a fortnight.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

It was a foul. The clip on the knee inflicted the pain. It was a yellow especially in light iof the tightrope Ameobi was walking. You can't book a player for rolling. He could roll all over the pitch for the whole damn game if he wants (would make him a bit slow in defence). Bit he should have been booked for clearly trying to make sure the player got want off. That was unsportsmanlike conduct.

The shame is that this does happen all game every game - not normally that close to the cameras. You can't blame refs for making mistakes when they have to make dozens of instant decisions and interpret the degree of acting the are seeing. There seems to be more now than ever.

In this case Spanish Dave was a dick but far the worst cases of cheating for me now are the "trailing leg" foul - used to best effect in the penalty area. These are 100% cheating from start to finish. I don't buy the "he earned it by drawing a tackle" shit. It stinks. It come from the same place that makes players think they are entitled to scream in the face of the officials.

So was it a foul? Yes. Did Dave cheat? Yes. Was it the worst case that day or even that game? Of course not. Will it keep happening? Yes - until we give power back to the referees, and managers are incentivised to control themselves and their players.

 

[LamieRobertson]

No, it's not too far at all.

If it was an opposition player doing that, someone such as Zaha for example, Albion fans would be in absolute uproar and rightly so. There was no need to roll over and over and over again, and the glance in the direction of the ref just reaffirmed the cynical nature of what he was up to.

Was it a foul? Probably, yes.

Was it a yellow card offence? I'm not so sure. However, I'd hope the ref didn't give the card on the basis of roly poly Dave, so maybe it was.

I'd LOVE it for Albion fans to lead the way in calling our own players out for theatrics as maybe that's what it's going to take to finally get cheating out of the game.

Totally agree particularly that last line..so much is being said about racism in football and not enough about the cheating etc

 

[maltaseagull]

Everyone else does it, why shouldn't he But yes, I did think he took it too far.

Agreed. Maybe convinced the ref it was a yellow card tackle. Did look just like a striker tackle late and clumsy though.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

Presumably anyone who voted no would feel the same if Zaha did it to get one of our players sent off?

 

[TheMajor]

No he did not cheat. Where does it say in the rules of the game that a player may not roll over clutching his leg after contact was made. Clearly he was fouled.

However, if contact had not be made (Zahaha) and simulation follows then that is cheating.

 

[MJsGhost]

he did go down and roll around a bit too much, but he isnt a cheat as it actually was a foul in the first place and he would have probably been booked anyway

Out of interest, what do you think were his reasons for the rolling around & sly look at the ref before more rolling around? Regardless of it being a foul (it was), exaggerating the reaction to provoke a stronger response from the referee is cheating.

 

[rocker959]

oh for the days when the players were not big girls blouses.

 

[Hotchilidog]

If he had dived for the foul I'd say yes, but it was a clear foul and a dumb challenge from Ameobi so I would say no. I think the little look was unsporting and can see why people are upset about it but Ameobi did not get the card for the extra roll.

if any of our players do dive then I would be more than happy to condemn them, but in this instance I would say SD did not cheat.

 

[Spiros]

No, not a cheat. Sure he overexaggerated the tackle but it was a foul and it was a yellow card. All it ended up doing was making sure the ref didn't miss it. Admittedly, 1 or 2 less rolls would have still got the job done but its hardly cheating.

It also wasn't a dive as he was actually fouled (and not in the Gareth Bale sense either of "there was any contact so its my right to go down"). Not great to see, but not worth all the attention either.

Agreed. The foul was right in front of me and what doesn't come across on the TV is the noise of the contact made by Ameobi's knee on Dave's leg. OK he milked it a bit but there was definitely contact (and not just a brush either). The first yellow for Ameobi was a nasty little one. Some players have been sent off for just kicking out a player when the ball has long gone like that.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

To clear up the cheating argumnt. From Law 12:

In addition, a player is cautioned and shown a yellow card for "unsporting behaviour" which includes the following:

Commits a direct free kick foul in a reckless manner (for example, charging, pushing, tripping)
Commits a direct free kick foul in a reckless manner while tackling for the ball from any direction
Commits a tactical foul designed to interfere with or impede an opposing team’s attacking play (e.g., pushing an opponent, blatantly holding an opponent or an opponent's uniform, handling the ball deliberately)
Handles the ball deliberately to score a goal
Commits an act which, in the opinion of the referee, shows a lack of respect for the game (e.g., aggressive attitude, inflammatory behavior, or taunting)
Fakes an injury or exaggerates the seriousness of an injury
Fakes a foul (dives) or exaggerates the severity of a foul

Bookable offence.