[Travel] Southern scraps off-peak Brighton to Victoria trains

[Chicken Run]

I tend not to read the Arsegas, especially when it comes to the railway.

So they're not scrapping them, they're reducing them to ease congestion through Gatwick while the works are happening? And they're forewarning people about it as well? String 'em up.

Edit: Just read the press release myself, so they are indeed stopping the direct services off peak for 2 years. That'll be fun.

You can read all about it on the Southern website here.

Yes, let’s not let the facts get in the way of a good story eh!!

Suspending for two years whilst work is done at Gatwick.

 

[Madafwo]

If you've got a Thameslink Travelcard, then surely you can use any service in zones 1-6, including a Southern service from Victoria to East Croydon.

Yup, in normal situations the restriction only kicked in South of Croydon.

 

[sully]

I definitely recall large canopies at West Worthing and Portslade stations years past that covered to the edge of the platforms, I think they became slightly dangerous ( ergo, in need of repair, ergo costing money ) and were subsequently ripped down as a short term cost saving exercise. Sad really, the Victorians really built things with style and to last and we just do bodge jobs on everything these days.

The problem became the inability to maintain the section nearest the platform edge as it was too close to the running lines. An early victim of better health and safety.

I was involved in quite a few projects back in the 80s that removed anything that couldn’t be easily maintained, which saddened me at the time but I understand the reasons for better now.

 

[Gwylan]

One difference between Southern and Gatwick Express is that you can use Network railcards on the former but not on GE services (as I found out to my cost once). That's a nice little earner for them

 

[Lower West Stander]

You can't use Thameslink tickets to get to Victoria (Southern ticket needed).....but you can use a Thameslink ticket on a Southern train from London Bridge [emoji849][emoji849]

If nothing direct from Brighton to Victoria, pick up the train coming from Eastbourne at Wivelsfield, then you'll be on it before the masses get on at Haywards Heath

Why would you just buy a Thameslink ticket? Why not just buy a ticket which takes you to London Terminals?

Is it more expensive? I’m an ST holder so am genuinely interested.....


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[Gwylan]

Why would you just buy a Thameslink ticket? Why not just buy a ticket which takes you to London Terminals?

Is it more expensive?

Yes.

There are TL-only tickets which are considerably cheaper than any route tickets to London Terminals

 

[Lower West Stander]

Yes.

There are TL-only tickets which are considerably cheaper than any route tickets to London Terminals

Ah ok.

Explains it then. Thanks [emoji106]


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[Cowfold Seagull]

Better information from the Southern website. So Gatwick Express every 30 minutes (except between 0712-0812 and 1729-1829), Thameslink roughly normal, and services via Hove and Lewes should be unaffected with higher capacity. Thameslink trains are much less comfortable to be honest.

It's frustrating, but the railway always needs an upgrade and upgrades mean disruption.

Thameslink much less comfortable when it comes to seatong, but boy are those new(ish) trains great people movers, at the height of the rush hour coming away from London, they can take so many more passengers than any rolling stock that Southern has to offer, (albeit standing).

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Doubt it'll actually change things, but I've emailed Caroline Lucas about it. Hopefully they'll at least scrap the ticket restriction for Gatwick Express trains, regardless of the legality of its current stance.

As much as l admire Caroline Lucas, and your standing in the community, I'm not at all sure that your solitary email will result in Govia Thameslink caving in to your demands.

 

[dazzer6666]

Why would you just buy a Thameslink ticket? Why not just buy a ticket which takes you to London Terminals?

Is it more expensive? I’m an ST holder so am genuinely interested.....


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Yes - a 'thameslink only' ticket for me for my daily commute (without travelcard) is about £6 less and about £15 less for a weekly season ticket

It's confusing though, as with that ticket I can take a Southern train to/from from London Bridge as they are ticketed by Thameslink. When you look on the National Rail planner it tells you which operator is issuing the tickets.

Means I can only go to London Bridge (or other London stations) on TL line and not Victoria (only Southern and GE go to Victoria).

 

[dazzer6666]

Thameslink much less comfortable when it comes to seatong, but boy are those new(ish) trains great people movers, at the height of the rush hour coming away from London, they can take so many more passengers than any rolling stock that Southern has to offer, (albeit standing).

The Southern trains out of London Bridge (more comfortable) - eg hourly service to Eastbourne - are rarely full now due to the increased frequency of TL trains going South........I always get a seat easily on the 17.32 or 18.32.

Agree re the TL trains - capacity is huge (partly due to the continuous carriages), and now very frequent too. Usually have 12 cars.

 

[Lush]

I definitely recall large canopies at West Worthing and Portslade stations years past that covered to the edge of the platforms, I think they became slightly dangerous ( ergo, in need of repair, ergo costing money ) and were subsequently ripped down as a short term cost saving exercise. Sad really, the Victorians really built things with style and to last and we just do bodge jobs on everything these days.

This. Eg the metal box bridge over the tracks at Haywards Heath.

 

[Notters]

Has no-one mentioned that although the headline suggests this affects only off-peak trains, there will only be ONE peak train too?

 

[happypig]

Mornington Crescent !

 

[drew]

Not sure why you can't use the tickets on all services as they are all the same company at the end of the day, Govia!!

 

[beorhthelm]

Has no-one mentioned that although the headline suggests this affects only off-peak trains, there will only be ONE peak train too?

that appears a claim made by Lloyd Russell-Moyle MP, not supported or verified in other reports or press releases.

 

[Uter]

May 20 to May 22.

The cause is the Gatwick work, according to the Argus.

And soon after this is complete comes another 7 years of disruption from 2023 to 2030 because of the Croydon Area Remodelling Scheme.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...n-main-line/unblocking-the-croydon-bottleneck

 

[Weststander]

Not sure why you can't use the tickets on all services as they are all the same company at the end of the day, Govia!!

To rip punters off for the allegedly premium Gatwick Express service .

 

[Ernest]

Conditions 12.1 and 13.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel make clear that any restrictions on the trains or train companies you can take must be clearly indicated on the ticket.

There is only one company which trades as Southern, Thameslink, Gatwick Express and Great Northern. Its legal name is Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd. Thus, it would be reasonable to assume that, if 'Thameslink only' is intended to refer to a specific train company then it refers to Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd., of which it is an abbreviation (given that there is only space for 16 characters in the route restriction field on a ticket).

So yes, you are legally entitled to take a Gatwick Express train with a 'Thameslink only' ticket, provided the route-wise validity of the ticket lets you (e.g. you could on a London Terminals to Gatwick Airport one, but not on a London Bridge to Gatwick Airport one as no Gatwick Express trains depart from London Bridge). Either 'Thameslink only' is referring to Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd. - in which case it is referring to the only operator of trains to Gatwick Airport which you can take from London, or it isn't referring to a Train Company (as defined in the NRCoT) at all.

The unknowledgeable and poorly/wrongly trained staff at the ticket barriers will likely not agree with you, but they would be wrong in disagreeing with you. If they caused you to be delayed by incorrectly preventing you from exercising your contractual rights then you would be entitled to the appropriate Delay Repay compensation.

 

[dazzer6666]

Conditions 12.1 and 13.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel make clear that any restrictions on the trains or train companies you can take must be clearly indicated on the ticket.

There is only one company which trades as Southern, Thameslink, Gatwick Express and Great Northern. Its legal name is Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd. Thus, it would be reasonable to assume that, if 'Thameslink only' is intended to refer to a specific train company then it refers to Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd., of which it is an abbreviation (given that there is only space for 16 characters in the route restriction field on a ticket).

So yes, you are legally entitled to take a Gatwick Express train with a 'Thameslink only' ticket, provided the route-wise validity of the ticket lets you (e.g. you could on a London Terminals to Gatwick Airport one, but not on a London Bridge to Gatwick Airport one as no Gatwick Express trains depart from London Bridge). Either 'Thameslink only' is referring to Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd. - in which case it is referring to the only operator of trains to Gatwick Airport which you can take from London, or it isn't referring to a Train Company (as defined in the NRCoT) at all.

The unknowledgeable and poorly/wrongly trained staff at the ticket barriers will likely not agree with you, but they would be wrong in disagreeing with you. If they caused you to be delayed by incorrectly preventing you from exercising your contractual rights then you would be entitled to the appropriate Delay Repay compensation.

So buy a Thameslink only ticket and go to Victoria?