Southern Rail STRIKE details

[The Clamp]

I notice nobody has been able to answer the question:

If there is so much potential for accidents, why are drivers not refusing flat out to drive DOO trains?

 

[The Clamp]

Actually agree to an extent - it is a bit arse about face but separate talks to the DOO dispute were started to try and agree an outstanding pay deal but no offer was put forward by the company that didn't include an agreement to run DOO and more importantly didn't guarantee a second safety critical person on board plus other changes to our terms and conditions were included so, in effect, no satisfactory offer was put forward regardless of the amount offered. Hope that makes some sort of sense. In my opinion Aslef should never have started pay talks anyway because it now looks as though all we want is more money to accept the DOO changes and it plays into the company's hands a bit so that they can put out statements intimating we are all greedy and just want more money.

If safety is your priority, why are you still driving DOO trains? Why not flat out refuse?

 

[Petee]

Any idea when the timetable is going back to normal?

 

[Deadly Danson]

If safety is your priority, why are you still driving DOO trains? Why not flat out refuse?

Because in the very early days of the dispute a judge ruled that Gatwick Express drivers had to drive them and that precedent has been followed since with advice given by Aslef that we cannot legally refuse to drive them.

 

[Postman Pat]

Any idea when the timetable is going back to normal?

When the overtime ban ends or GTR employ and train loads more drivers.

 

[The Clamp]

Because in the very early days of the dispute a judge ruled that Gatwick Express drivers had to drive them and that precedent has been followed since with advice given by Aslef that we cannot legally refuse to drive them.

Pffft.
So your morals and consciences are in the hands of ASLEF. If you truly believed, as you claim, that they are unsafe you wouldn't get on board one. You make out you are morally correct by saying it's not about money, it's about safety but then just follow orders when told to by ASLEF, even though you are certain these trains are not safe.
Fair enough but you can't have it both ways. You can't claim the moral high ground but get on board when told to!

 

[BN9 BHA]

Any idea when the timetable is going back to normal?

2052

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Pffft.
So your morals and consciences are in the hands of ASLEF. If you truly believed, as you claim, that they are unsafe you wouldn't get on board one. You make out you are morally correct by saying it's not about money, it's about safety but then just follow orders when told to by ASLEF, even though you are certain these trains are not safe.
Fair enough but you can't have it both ways. You can't claim the moral high ground but get on board when told to!

The strikes are nothing to do with safety or pay. The government wanted to pick a fight with the unions and the unions decided they were up for said fight. The government are using Southern to fight that fight while the unions are using their customers as cannon fodder to fight the fight. It's nothing more than a power struggle as to who runs the railways.

 

[The Clamp]

The strikes are nothing to do with safety or pay. The government wanted to pick a fight with the unions and the unions decided they were up for said fight. The government are using Southern to fight that fight while the unions are using their customers as cannon fodder to fight the fight. It's nothing more than a power struggle as to who runs the railways.

Makes a lot of sense. More sense than the train driver on here is attempting to make. As usual it's the end user that suffers while the overpaid staff and fat cat corporates wrestle for power. Vanity.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Because in the very early days of the dispute a judge ruled that Gatwick Express drivers had to drive them and that precedent has been followed since with advice given by Aslef that we cannot legally refuse to drive them.

Coming out with crap like that you have lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. If ASLEF advised you to jump in front of a train would you do it?

You're all as bad as each other.....

 

[Deadly Danson]

Coming out with crap like that you have lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned. If ASLEF advised you to jump in front of a train would you do it?

You're all as bad as each other.....

Why - because a high court judge ruled against us so that if I refused to drive a DOO train the legal advice we have been given is that it would be grounds for dismissal.

 

[The Large One]

The strikes are nothing to do with safety or pay.

The strikes are about safety. They haven't been balloted on pay yet.

The government wanted to pick a fight with the unions and the unions decided they were up for said fight.

The unions didn't want fight. They had it imposed upon them. They did at least get prior warning with the government publicly announcing that they wanted a punch up with the unions.

The government are using Southern to fight that fight while the unions are using their customers as cannon fodder to fight the fight.

Correct about the government using Southern to fight that fight, and should they win, they'll spread that onto other rail companies. Again, this much we know through public statements. However, are the unions are not asking the customers to fight for them - no idea where that came from.

It's nothing more than a power struggle as to who runs the railways.

Nor is it to so with who runs the railways. The government (on the Southern route) runs the railways. Across the country, a collection of mostly foreign-owned companies run the railways. The unions don't, never have, and don't wish to.

The dispute - as already stated many times - is about the government wishing to destroy the unions. They assumed they'd have public support in that. Now they don't have it, they're stuck in a rut they can't - and won't - negotiate their way out of. After that, they can impose whatever they wish upon the railways, although they've already done so way before the dispute started, as pretty much everyone can testify.

There are so many calls for the government to carry out its duty and intervene in the dispute. Southern and the RMT had an agreement over a year ago to end the dispute, and the government torpedoed it. It's the only time the government has got directly involved in the dispute.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

The strikes are about safety. They haven't been balloted on pay yet.

They have as per ASLEF's own report.

 

[The Large One]

They have as per ASLEF's own report.

This is an example of ASLEF's appallingly poor communication. The RMT are no better. They have since clarified the position.

It is about pay insofar there are two parallel sets of talks going on. One set is about safety and DOO, the other is about the annual pay review.

The DfT have decided to lump them together in one 'take it or leave it' offer. The safety and DOO terms are unacceptable, so the offer is rejected. The 23.8% conditional pay offer is therefore irrelevant.

They haven't been balloted on the annual pay review. That bit they did make crystal clear to their members.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

This is an example of ASLEF's appallingly poor communication. The RMT are no better. They have since clarified the position.

It is about pay insofar there are two parallel sets of talks going on. One set is about safety and DOO, the other is about the annual pay review.

The DfT have decided to lump them together in one 'take it or leave it' offer. The safety and DOO terms are unacceptable, so the offer is rejected. The 23.8% conditional pay offer is therefore irrelevant.

They haven't been balloted on the annual pay review. That bit they did make crystal clear to their members.

Not sure that last sentence is true. [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION] seemed to think it WAS over pay and ASLEF are being clumsy. Like I said yesterday, ASLEF have muddied the waters. This supports that view.

Again, I think Mick Whelen should be subject to a vote of no confidence as he's being out-thought by a bunch of clowns at DaFT.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Not sure that last sentence is true. [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION] seemed to think it WAS over pay and ASLEF are being clumsy. Like I said yesterday, ASLEF have muddied the waters. This supports that view.

Again, I think Mick Whelen should be subject to a vote of no confidence as he's being out-thought by a bunch of clowns at DaFT.

The ballot wasn't over the pay offer as such - i.e we didn't vote on whether to accept the pay increase but rather on the lack of an offer that didn't include the DOO etc terms and conditions changes.

 

[Ernest]

The strike is over the 2016 pay award I believe and if it's accepted it means that the drivers terms and conditions automatically accept DOO as the default method of working

 

[beorhthelm]

There are so many calls for the government to carry out its duty and intervene in the dispute. Southern and the RMT had an agreement over a year ago to end the dispute, and the government torpedoed it. It's the only time the government has got directly involved in the dispute.

its funny keep parroting this lie, even though the RMT walked out and their members already lost out.

 

[Yoda]

its funny keep parroting this lie, even though the RMT walked out and their members already lost out.

On the day after. Southern went to to the DfT with what they & the RMT had agreed on during the day that evening, come back the following day and reject it. RMT Then walked out.

 

[Baker lite]

The strike is over the 2016 pay award I believe and if it's accepted it means that the drivers terms and conditions automatically accept DOO as the default method of working

I believe is the correct answer,LUL shiny arse tried the same tactic a few years back with night tube,that blew up in their faces and over 900 new jobs were created.


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