[News] Southend (not Southport) - machete fight

[rippleman]

Also, drug laws are changing around the world so there is plenty of real world evidence to now look at. The US is now at the forefront of the weed industry. German laws have just changed. If the puritanical US can change things then so can most western nations.

For the record I am not a huge supporter of drug legalisation, more someone who simply sees the failure of decades of war-n-drugs and does not see the sense in keeping it illegal.

If cannabis were to be legalised I don't believe it would stop the illegal trade for the sole reason that the government would greedily tax it to make it ineffective from a cost perspective. It's what they have been doing on alcohol and tobacco for decades. Around 80% of a packet of fags is some form of tax.

That's why so much illicit tobacco and alcohol gets smuggled in and is so readily available on most high streets.

Yes, legalise cannabis but if the government taxes it we will swiftly be back to square one.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If cannabis were to be legalised I don't believe it would stop the illegal trade for the sole reason that the government would greedily tax it to make it ineffective from a cost perspective. It's what they have been doing on alcohol and tobacco for decades. Around 80% of a packet of fags is some form of tax.

That's why so much illicit tobacco and alcohol gets smuggled in and is so readily available on most high streets.

Yes, legalise cannabis but if the government taxes it we will swiftly be back to square one.

Are you sure about this? I have never seen this in Faversham, and have never been offered it. I would suggest that 95% of all tobacco and alcohol sold in the UK is taxed.

 

[Weststander]

Portugal is often cited as a good example with regards to their drug policy. I don't know too much of the detail but, as far as I understand it, they've decriminalised rather than legalised.

So it's still illegal to use cocaine but if you're caught with a gram of it at the football it'll be confiscated and you'll be fined.

I’m looking to see what strategy brings an end to violent crime from dealers in hard recreational drugs. To end scenes in the OP. (I presume drug related because other posters here introduced that into this thread).

Has a country ‘cracked’ this?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

If cannabis were to be legalised I don't believe it would stop the illegal trade for the sole reason that the government would greedily tax it to make it ineffective from a cost perspective. It's what they have been doing on alcohol and tobacco for decades. Around 80% of a packet of fags is some form of tax.

That's why so much illicit tobacco and alcohol gets smuggled in and is so readily available on most high streets.

Yes, legalise cannabis but if the government taxes it we will swiftly be back to square one.

Are you seriously suggesting it should be legalized and not taxed?

By that logic you presumably think that anything that is taxed has an illegal black market. Knock-off fridges, iPhones, Renaults etc.. On every high street.

I have a feeling that you have either been on the weed, or have slipped through the back of your wardrobe into Narnia.

 

[raymondo]

FFS

Blimey, where's a police marksman when you need one

 

[raymondo]

And how do you to propose to deter/ prevent those who choose to carry machetes and want to fight each other in a Main Street in Uk?
One thing that is key to note here, is there are Police on scene, in the video, who are completely unequipped to deal with the situation.
They are bystanders, yielding no power, respect or authority at all.
No fault of the individuals at all.

Start machete clubs where the weapons are stored and they can hack at each other in a safe place away from the public.

 

[BBassic]

I’m looking to see what strategy brings an end to violent crime from dealers in hard recreational drugs. To end scenes in the OP. (I presume drug related because other posters here introduced that into this thread).

Has a country ‘cracked’ this?

No, short answer.

Slightly longer answer - no country will ever, ever, implement a drug enforcement policy that ends associated violent crime.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't take steps, like Portugal have done, to try and make things better anyway.

 

[jcdenton08]

What an incredibly depressing couple of days

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If cannabis were to be legalised I don't believe it would stop the illegal trade for the sole reason that the government would greedily tax it to make it ineffective from a cost perspective. It's what they have been doing on alcohol and tobacco for decades. Around 80% of a packet of fags is some form of tax.

That's why so much illicit tobacco and alcohol gets smuggled in and is so readily available on most high streets.

Yes, legalise cannabis but if the government taxes it we will swiftly be back to square one.

Very fair point. The price difference between a pack of fags in the UK and mainland europe is crazy.

 

[jcdenton08]

Very fair point. The price difference between a pack of fags in the UK and mainland europe is crazy.

Even bigger difference in America.

 

[chickens]

No things would be much worse as if you remove the drug gangs income source they would then turn to robbery with violence against the general public to maintain their lifestyle
Only way to beat to gangs is to take them out permanently but we can't do that so we just all have to grin and bear it .

But legalising drugs would cut off a main income source, shrinking their influence. Very few are risking jail for no financial reward.

If you’re suggesting that every unemployed drug dealer would immediately take to mugging people, I disagree. You’d get a proportion who wanted to live out their gangster fantasy and would get locked up, but there’s plenty who make a living off of selling to their immediate social circle and close friends thereof.

It’s also worth noting that there’s no drug on earth that turns you into a machete wielding bellend. What we’re seeing is machete wielding bellends, who may or may not also have taken some drugs.

 

[nevergoagain]

A sad indictment of society today. No one gives a fook about anything and thinks they can do whatever they like without consequence. Southport last night, Southend, twat on a bus in Brighton, Manchester Airport. Doesn't just have to be violence, you see all those videos of people just brazenly going into shops and effectively looting them without challenge. Where did it all go wrong, let alone how do you fix it.

 

[Bakero]

Portugal is often cited as a good example with regards to their drug policy. I don't know too much of the detail but, as far as I understand it, they've decriminalised rather than legalised.

So it's still illegal to use cocaine but if you're caught with a gram of it at the football it'll be confiscated and you'll be fined.

You're right that they've decriminalised rather than legalised.

I think I'm right in saying that there has been an increase in recorded drug use but drug deaths and HIV cases are well down.

 

[BBassic]

You're right that they've decriminalised rather than legalised.

I think I'm right in saying that there has been an increase in recorded drug use but drug deaths and HIV cases are well down.

Yeah, when I did a brief bit of reading this morning they were looking down the barrel of a major HIV crisis in 1999/2000 and this was the driver behind the law change

 

[herecomesaregular]

Are you sure about this? I have never seen this in Faversham, and have never been offered it. I would suggest that 95% of all tobacco and alcohol sold in the UK is taxed.

When i worked with MH clients in Worthing they were forever buying cheap, dodgy knock off, sometime Russian, fags from numerous local "corner" shops, sold under the counter. The liquorice related one in particular and when i spoke to HMRC about it they knew this and said they were "monitoring" the shop. I think you move in more lofty circles H..

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m looking to see what strategy brings an end to violent crime from dealers in hard recreational drugs. To end scenes in the OP. (I presume drug related because other posters here introduced that into this thread).

Has a country ‘cracked’ this?

I don't think there is a clear answer. The landscape will be parochial because all countries are different in terms of all the drivers for behavior and criminality.

Every country has to consider the following:

1. How much criminality in the drug trade can we tolerate?
2. What are the harms associated with drug use?
3. Would legalization reduce or increase the harms caused by drug use?

It seems that we in the UK are focused mostly on number 1.

So we increase penalties of knife possession (and drug possession). Next question: how much more money are we prepared to spend on prevention and detection of drug-related criminality?

But lots of the public (how many is lots?) say "Hang it all, just legalize it!"

In other countries the conversation will be different.

In all honestly, I don't find it very interesting anymore. Legalize weed? Mmmmm..... maybe, but make it illegal to smoke it on the street (or stink your clothes up with it and use public transport).

 

[AmexRuislip]

Grew up in a Glasgow council estate In 80’s.
Never saw this type of machete action in open play playing out on the streets and it was pretty rough then.
Demography is destiny

Didn't you used to luzz deep fried mars bars at each other, they're more lethal.



Asking for a Scottish friend.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

The sooner you realise the society you once loved is dead the better

 

[herecomesaregular]

The sooner you realise the society you once loved is dead the better

ooh, you should spray that on a derelict wall somewhere....

 

[Bakero]

The sooner you realise the society you once loved is dead the better

There have always been horrific incidents. Dunblane in the 90s, Hungerford in the 80s.