Sorry to get political on an Albion site but.....

[Questions]

I think people have touched on it but when the Thatcher goverments took the discipline out of schools it created an enviroment that has got worse, the kids know the teachers have no real deterrent so they basically behave how they like.
And it gets everywhere, our Under 15's played this morning a player called the linesman a "C*nt" in front of quite a large crowd, the ref did nothing, not even booked him, the manager and the chairman of the offending club heard it, yet no-one acts because its the 'norm', and the player is merely a "natural competitior".

Sad days............

Then you should put it in a report to the local FA Ian if you think this sort of thing should be stamped out.
They wont just dismiss it.

 

[larus]

Never forget that it's the easiest thing in the world to promise that "Things Can Only Get Better" from the opposition Front Bench. It's pure rhetoric all the while you don't have to actually deliver the goods.

As we've experienced with 'New Labour' I'm afraid.

One thing I realised several years ago, is that ALL politicians are out for themselves. (Maybe that is a bit extreme, but how many tell the truth, so excuse my cynicism?).

 

[Brian Fantana]

Blaming everything on the Tory party is very unfair. Like everything, this problem does not have a single cause. It is the role of the parents predominatly to ensure that their children behave in the correct manner. At the end of the day, schools are there to educate children in a variety of different areas but not to take over full responsiblity from the parents.

Thatcher was trying to give more individiual power to school in the 1980s in an attempt to increase standards. In terms of quality of teaching this has been achieved. My father is a teacher who has been teaching since the 1970s and he is of the opinion that things have got better. The problem is that New Labour has not taken advantage of the reforms started by Thathcher and this have started to stagnate.

 

[Freddie Goodwin.]

Thatcher went many years ago. There's been enough time, in education, to right any perceived wrongs.

When i was young we often heard of the 'Generation gap'. back in those days anyone over 40 was 'old' and had the grey suit, tie & brylcream to prove it.

Isn't it strange now that 50, 60 or even older, is not considered old. Many pop & rock stars are of penshionable age so there's no longer that cultural barrier.

What bothers me greatly though is the insecurity in life. kids cannot go out to play now and spend time at home. When they get to mising it's only with their own age group. The perceived fear of peadophiles (they always existed) has led to a barrier between adults & kids.

An adult male cannot communicate with kids anymore in a way that doesn't seem 'odd' either to the kid or to other adults. This has diminished some of the respect, respect that you'll find in the animal kingdom, where kids respond in a certain way to adults.

Now, before Ed, who has made his points very well, get's up in arms, i'm mainly thinking of the small things like mucking around on buses etc where, in the past, an adult would have 'had a word' and kids wouldn't have answered back. now adults do nothing & kids have free range.

You mention about certain laws you don't agree with so don't go along with them. Ok, but laws take years to evolve and evlove through experince & knowledge. Sure most parents might have smoked, drank and indulged in other 'pleasures' when they were young and most will now realise why the law is there and not wish their kids to do the same. Of course, as kids, it's often your job to make your own mistakes and learn from them.

I think kids should be taught some social etiquette at school. Things like how unsocial the loud playing of music on public transport, especially rap music. Why do poor Brit kids identify with black street music fed to them by stars dripping in 'bling' who have little idea of life for a UK kid?

Anyway, i'm rambling. what i will say is that football is great at bridging the gap. In the 70's it was all aggro, now you can sit in a pub and chat to anyone, even opposing fans. When I look at the mix of ages at Withdean i happen to think it's one of the only places where all sorts mix safe & happy.

And, on that thought...

good night children, wherever you are.

 

[DJ Leon]

I think people have touched on it but when the Thatcher goverments took the discipline out of schools it created an enviroment that has got worse, the kids know the teachers have no real deterrent so they basically behave how they like.
And it gets everywhere, our Under 15's played this morning a player called the linesman a "C*nt" in front of quite a large crowd, the ref did nothing, not even booked him, the manager and the chairman of the offending club heard it, yet no-one acts because its the 'norm', and the player is merely a "natural competitior".

Sad days............

But professional footballers do these things all the time. So do managers. And they should know better, no? So where does the problem lie? With the children?

 

[perseus]

The Tory party are the ones which took the discipline out of schools in the 1980's which has gone a long way to causing the problems with the youngsters we have now, but to hear them constantly sniping at the government you'd think they were totally blameless.

So the teachers cannot bully the kids any longer.

The teenagers nowadays are better behaved than we were. I don't think Thatcher's absurd philosophy and politics are the reason though. It might be because the viloence level in schools has fallen.

 

[bullshit detector]

Whatever happened to childhood?
We're all scared of the kids in our neighboorhood;
They're not small, charming and harmless,
They're a violent bunch of bastard little shits.
And anyone who looks younger than me
Makes me check for my wallet, my phone and my keys,
And I'm tired of being tired out
Always being on the lookout for thieving gits.

We're all wondering how we ended up so scared;
We spent ten long years teaching our kids not to care
And that "there's no such thing as society" anyway,
And all the rich folks act surprised
When all sense of community dies,
But you just closed your eyes to the other sidev Of all the things that she did.
Thatcher f***ed the kids.

And it seems a little bit rich to me,
The way the rich only ever talk of charity
In times like the seventies, the broken down economy
Meant even the upper tier was needing some help.
But as soon as things look brighter,
Yeah the grin gets wider and the grip gets tighter,
And for every teenage tracksuit mugger
There's a guy in a suit who wouldn't lift a finger for anybody else.

You've got a generation raised on the welfare state,
Enjoyed all its benefits and did just great,
But as soon as they were settled as the richest of the rich,
They kicked away the ladder, told the rest of us that life's a bitch.
And it's no surprise that all the f***-ups
Didn't show up until the kids had grown up.
But when no one ever smiles or ever helps a stranger,
Is it any f***ing wonder our society's in danger of collapse?

So all the kids are bastards,
But don't blame them, yeah, they learn by example.
Blame the folks who sold the future for the highest bid:
That's right, Thatcher f***ed the kids.

FRANK TURNER
great songwriter, great song

 

[binky]

As a teacher I have been reading these posts with interest...

Young people are capable of very mature thoughts and ideas

Now that's patronising!

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Fair enough. I believe in equal treatment too, but personally I think it's swung the other way and you have the better deal. Just my opinion from my 15 years and 9 months in this world!

Absolutely, women have the better deal.

-Which is why, in the entire history of this country, we have had precisely one female leader (I am talking political leaders, as opposed to powerless hereditary figureheads like the Queen).

-Why there are 148 female members of the House of Lords, out of approximately 750 total.

-Why female MPs constitute only 19.7% of the current total.

-Why, in the entire history of the most powerful nation on earth, no woman has ever come close to being their President. Hillary Clinton may yet change that, but she still has to get the Democratic nomination, and even in that race, her gender has to be a campaign issue to some.

-Why, of the 193 countries in the world officially recognised by the UN, only ten have female Presidents or Prime Ministers as of September 2007-
Ireland, New Zealand, Finland, the Philippines, Mozambique, Liberia, Chile, Germany, Switzerland and India.

You say you believe in equal treatment, so please enlighten me as to how you think the above statistics constitute "a better deal" for us little ladies?

 

[bhaexpress]

And this sums up why children might not appear to have respect for people like you.

I am trying to communicate with you on a civil level. I am typing in proper English and trying to organise my arguments logically and meaningfully. But once again I am not treated as an equal because of my age. You then seem to patronize me and belittle me by using 'mummy and daddy' I am not stupid, it clearly had intent.

So you have the right to patronize me and be a condescending fool but when it comes to people my age we have to take responsibility for all of our actions . Doesn't quite seem fair does it?

If you are going to say that 15 year olds should be capable of independant thought and know what they're doing in wrong etc and accept these same responsibilities as adults then surely we are entitled to the basic rights, being taken seriously and not being patronized.

However, I'm going to look past that because i'm not narrow minded and try and focus on your point. I think you'd be surprised how many adults do break law sthey don't agree with. Speed limits for instance, I bet eveyr adult that drives has gone oer a speed limit before or something like that.

Yes, I am still a child in your eyes and in the eyes of the law and that is why I can't vote. But I have opinions just like the rest of you, though you might not value them because I'm younger. People critisize the youth for 0 interest in politics but if someone tries to take an interest they are shot down.

I patronize you for the very simple reason you make sweeping assumptions. How do you arrive at the notion that we adults ignore the misdeeds of other adults ? What do you base that on ? Your own experience ? I talk to children like you in such a way because you have childish and immature opinions.

 

[Yorkie]

There has always been a 'generation gap' In the 50's there were Teddy boys, in the 60's it was mods and rockers, then skinheads, punks etc etc. It's just that the word chav is used now.
Youngsters have always been great (I was a qualified youth worker for 17 years working on a tough council estate in West Yorkshire) and there have always been the odd rotten apples.
Nothing changes.

I agree with the description of politicians by Roz and Larus. They (politicians not Nsc postser) are all in it for themselves.

 

[SeagullEd]

I'll reply to eveyrone later but I'll do the first one now.

Freddie Goodwin:

I agree win you on a lot of things there but my experiences of adults is very different. I help run another football forum and basically everyone on their is an adult and I feel niether below or above them. I chat to them all regularly (almost eveyr day) on msn and the gap is completely lifted. I spent my work experience week with a load of Brighton in the Community coaches which was absolutely fantastic and tehy were all really nice guys and there was no gap.

It is hard for me to say how a kid like that (sitting with feet on seats on buses) etc would response because I am not one of them. But I repeat, the amount of kids that do that is minimal! However, from my experiences I think it is the way in which the adult would speak to them (and sadly who the adult was, I must admit) and yes I agree they should not be doing it in the first place.

But I completely agree with you about football. I think most 70 year old men would be intimidated by 4 15 year olds who look older coming out of the football on their own etc, but at 2 away games that has been the case a 70 year old man has come up and started chatting to us about the football everytime. And we actually reall appreciate it because that gap is absolutely awful.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I think the average kid is probably about as well behaved now as as they were 20 years ago. The older generation will though always think that the younger generation are wilder and that they don't respect teachers/police/adults like they used too. Bollocks. There have always been kids which don't respect authority.

I assume Harty is refering to the removal of corporal punishment from schools. It always seemed bizarre to me that there could be a situation where is was fine to hit someone when they were a kid, but when they were an adult it would be assault.

 

[Storer68]

Personally, I blame McGhee

 

[Lethargic]

Some good points here.
Like everything in modern life there is no simple answer to this but a number of smaller (but not less important) contributing factors:

Too many to go into now but we do need to get a bit more discipline back for the extreme cases, not the majority.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Too many to go into now...

Lethargic by name...

 

[Seagull73]

I patronize you for the very simple reason you make sweeping assumptions. How do you arrive at the notion that we adults ignore the misdeeds of other adults ? What do you base that on ? Your own experience ? I talk to children like you in such a way because you have childish and immature opinions.

And that's a reason to patronize somebody - whatever age they are? Doesn't make you a very nice person that sweeping assumptions - which weren't aimed at you - mean you patronise somebody on a personal level.

I don't agree with some of his posts - but he clearly has impassioned arguments to make. His opinions aren't childish and immature, just not in agreement with yours.

 

[glasfryn]

Since moving to Wales from Brighton it has become obvious to us that here in Wales the children are better behaved (we do live in a rural area) ask a child here anything and you normally get a respectful answer,they have respect for age as well.
The last week we were in Brighton I witnessed a row in a shop between a child (14/15) and an older shop assistant (40/50) and the language of the youngster was atrocious and intimidating and this happened while the child's parents looked on, I came away from there embarrassed and shocked not at the child's behavior but because the parents said nothing in fact they seemed to be enjoying it.

my sympathies go to those who have to work taking this sort of abuse,teachers comes to mind as I think some have to take it all day,the younger generation who seem to think this is OK children and parents are in the minority and get the rest a bad name,any experiences I have had with the FEW have not made me judge the rest I have always taken people for what they are not where they are from or what colour they are or what football team they support.

having managed a youth football team in the 80's I could see the seeds of this growing then .....................it has not just happened.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Since moving to Wales from Brighton it has become obvious to us that here in Wales the children are better behaved (we do live in a rural area) ask a child here anything and you normally get a respectful answer,they have respect for age as well.
The last week we were in Brighton I witnessed a row in a shop between a child (14/15) and an older shop assistant (40/50) and the language of the youngster was atrocious and intimidating and this happened while the child's parents looked on, I came away from there embarrassed and shocked not at the child's behavior but because the parents said nothing in fact they seemed to be enjoying it.

my sympathies go to those who have to work taking this sort of abuse,teachers comes to mind as I think some have to take it all day,the younger generation who seem to think this is OK children and parents are in the minority and get the rest a bad name,any experiences I have had with the FEW have not made me judge the rest I have always taken people for what they are not where they are from or what colour they are or what football team they support.

having managed a youth football team in the 80's I could see the seeds of this growing then .....................it has not just happened.

Are you sure? Do you not think that if you went to Swansea and Cardiff then you might find similar behaviour? What might be a better anaylsis is that the kids that live in the country are better than city kids. Even that falls down a little bit, as there are thousands more kids live in the city than in the country and it only takes one or two to be twats for people to think the whole city is a nightmare.

 

[SeagullEd]

And that's a reason to patronize somebody - whatever age they are? Doesn't make you a very nice person that sweeping assumptions - which weren't aimed at you - mean you patronise somebody on a personal level.

I don't agree with some of his posts - but he clearly has impassioned arguments to make. His opinions aren't childish and immature, just not in agreement with yours.

Thanks mate, but don't worry.

All that shows to me is that the only way he can argue with my opinions and arguments are through a personal level using such trivial things as my age to try and gratify it. As far as I'm concerned, that speaks volumes.


On the thing about Women. Have you ever thought that perhaps it's because not as many women go for the job? More women stay at home with families then men and we know that. I could then reply with ' but how come there are so few primary school teachers which are male' it's because men (generally) don't apply for that role so it probably is representative.