Some common sense at last

[GOM]

Then your father would've needed to get his priorities right , I believe in strong discipline , my son goes to a secondary school that provides this , discipline is very strictly enforced, the kids in the vast majority are polite , well behaved, wear their uniform smartly and achieve high academic standards , all without the need for some quite possibly perverted teacher meting out extremely painful physical punishment that is so extreme that it leaves bruises.

Such emotive language.

I wonder how you will feel in 10/20/30/40 years when attitudes are different again and people accuse you in such similar terms of being............(i.e having lived in a different time)
You cannot judge people of things in the past by contemporary standards.

 

[Hastings gull]

Then your father would've needed to get his priorities right , I believe in strong discipline , my son goes to a secondary school that provides this , discipline is very strictly enforced, the kids in the vast majority are polite , well behaved, wear their uniform smartly and achieve high academic standards , all without the need for some quite possibly perverted teacher meting out extremely painful physical punishment that is so extreme that it leaves bruises.

Thanks for the post. I think your first sentence is rather harsh, as the original post was talking about another generation, when attitudes were clearly different. Of course there are schools where the ethos is as you mention, without the need for corporal punishment, though I also feel that your mention of a quite possibly perverted teacher introduces an unfortunate element. I was teaching for about 10 years in state schools when caning was still in use; staff administering such punishment had to record it and it was always witnessed by another member of staff.

 

[User removed 4]

Such emotive language.

I wonder how you will feel in 10/20/30/40 years when attitudes are different again and people accuse you in such similar terms of being............(i.e having lived in a different time)
You cannot judge people of things in the past by contemporary standards.

what's emotive about my language ? Its all true , are you telling me that caning isn't extremely painful ? I'm not judging anyone by contemporary standards, its standards full stop, there are a lot of things that I would say were better in the past, caning a kids buttocks to the point of bruising is NOT one of them , ive never hit my kids , so I'm bloody sure no one else is going to.

 

[User removed 4]

Thanks for the post. I think your first sentence is rather harsh, as the original post was talking about another generation, when attitudes were clearly different. Of course there are schools where the ethos is as you mention, without the need for corporal punishment, though I also feel that your mention of a quite possibly perverted teacher introduces an unfortunate element. I was teaching for about 10 years in state schools when caning was still in use; staff administering such punishment had to record it and it was always witnessed by another member of staff.

When I was caned mate it was always in an office with no other staff members present, one of the teachers who caned me is at the moment accused of indecent assault on teenage boys.

 

[Brovion]

Yes, yet another example of how times have changed and that attitudes are different. Obviously can't speak for all, but in experience albeit, most people of the older generation would say, rightly or wrongly, that getting the cane did not do them any harm in the long run.
I came home from school in the 60s, with a letter saying that I had received the cane for some heinous crime, and knew then that my parents were of the mind, that if you got hit at school, you got hit at home as well. My mum was sitting in the kitchen having a cuppa with the neighbour, and I thought that with someone else there, she would not dare, so blurted it out to get in quickly! No such luck! She was furious and struck out, but like any self-respecting teenager, I ducked, and she caught the neighbour a beauty!

That made me laugh! Come on, you can't leave it there, what happened next? Did the neighbour hit her back?

 

[Simster]

Then your father would've needed to get his priorities right , I believe in strong discipline , my son goes to a secondary school that provides this , discipline is very strictly enforced, the kids in the vast majority are polite , well behaved, wear their uniform smartly and achieve high academic standards , all without the need for some quite possibly perverted teacher meting out extremely painful physical punishment that is so extreme that it leaves bruises.

I'm in broad agreement with you. But to be honest, what do you do about the feral kids who have no morals, bring knives into school, know exactly what their "rights" are, and whose parents have absolutely no moral code or sense of responsibility for their children's actions? The problem is that these kids have the right to a state education too. I suppose they could be excluded from main stream state schools, but the issue is then that you'd find some heads become very trigger happy when it's their results that are being examined, and will start excluding kids for trivial offenses.

 

[Hastings gull]

As the thread seems to have evolved towards the changing attitudes over the years, I would be interested to hear others' views on this: In the late 1970s at the Albion it was common to hear monkey chants aimed at black players in the opposing teams - oh, yes it was! It was in the days when black players were a rarity and at the time there were no black players at the Albion. Most folk near me thought it was funny and so presumably saw no wrong in it. Perhaps, by the standards of the time, it was no different to other fans referring to Ian Mellor as spider. The chanting was designed to put the player off -no more or less, much the same now that fans chant you fat bxxxx at Wayne Rooney.
Yes, the colour of the person's skin was used and it bore no relevance to the football at all, but I don't think anyone saw it then as being racist - just a way of having a dig at the opposition; no more than lanky, fatty, spider etc. It seems incredible now that in Britain this could have been a regular feature of matches when black players were on the pitch. I think that the single most significant event for black players (other than legislation since, of course)) came in the 80s when West Brom fielded three talented individuals (can you name them?) and they proved to be missionaries who were able to combat bigotry.

 

[Simster]

WBA: Regis, Batson, Cunningham?

 

[Hastings gull]

That made me laugh! Come on, you can't leave it there, what happened next? Did the neighbour hit her back?

Abject apologies all round, mum had to see the funny side of things, and I got away with it. It was mentioned in Xmas cards to the neighbour for many years afterwards.

 

[Hastings gull]

When I was caned mate it was always in an office with no other staff members present, one of the teachers who caned me is at the moment accused of indecent assault on teenage boys.

Might I ask who this is? I assume that it is in the public domain, since you know about it?

 

[User removed 4]

Might I ask who this is? I assume that it is in the public domain, since you know about it?

I'll PM you

 

[GOM]

what's emotive about my language ? Its all true , are you telling me that caning isn't extremely painful ? I'm not judging anyone by contemporary standards, its standards full stop, there are a lot of things that I would say were better in the past, caning a kids buttocks to the point of bruising is NOT one of them , ive never hit my kids , so I'm bloody sure no one else is going to.

'some quite possibly perverted teacher'

 

[Mo Gosfield]

As the thread seems to have evolved towards the changing attitudes over the years, I would be interested to hear others' views on this: In the late 1970s at the Albion it was common to hear monkey chants aimed at black players in the opposing teams - oh, yes it was! It was in the days when black players were a rarity and at the time there were no black players at the Albion. Most folk near me thought it was funny and so presumably saw no wrong in it. Perhaps, by the standards of the time, it was no different to other fans referring to Ian Mellor as spider. The chanting was designed to put the player off -no more or less, much the same now that fans chant you fat bxxxx at Wayne Rooney.
Yes, the colour of the person's skin was used and it bore no relevance to the football at all, but I don't think anyone saw it then as being racist - just a way of having a dig at the opposition; no more than lanky, fatty, spider etc. It seems incredible now that in Britain this could have been a regular feature of matches when black players were on the pitch. I think that the single most significant event for black players (other than legislation since, of course)) came in the 80s when West Brom fielded three talented individuals (can you name them?) and they proved to be missionaries who were able to combat bigotry.

A lot of people are misguided into thinking that there has always been prejudice and bigotry shown to black players in this country. Not so. For years, players like Lindy Delapino, Charlie Williams, Cec Podd and Albert Johannson plied their trade as pro footballers and were afforded respect and dignity.
Monkey chanting, banana throwing and racial abuse were all symptomatic of a change in attitude in society, starting in the late 60's and gaining force in the 70's. Fans were less tolerant of our increasing multi-racial society. They resented it and vented their spleen at football. It was ugly, ignorant and did our society a grave disservice. It also developed into Paki-bashing, Jew baiting and anything else they could think of.
The three black players at WBA did pave the way for opening up the game to more black players and within a short space of time, there were one or two in most teams.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I don't think you get 'offended' by your relations being removed from Vienna to concentration camps, I think the emotions would be somewhat stronger, perhaps outrage or many more, but not 'offended'.

Agreed. I was just trying to make the point that he knows from personal experience what "discrimination" is. I think the main point is that the words offended and offence - as in take offence - could cover a multitude of sins.

 

[Hastings gull]

A lot of people are misguided into thinking that there has always been prejudice and bigotry shown to black players in this country. Not so. For years, players like Lindy Delapino, Charlie Williams, Cec Podd and Albert Johannson plied their trade as pro footballers and were afforded respect and dignity.
Monkey chanting, banana throwing and racial abuse were all symptomatic of a change in attitude in society, starting in the late 60's and gaining force in the 70's. Fans were less tolerant of our increasing multi-racial society. They resented it and vented their spleen at football. It was ugly, ignorant and did our society a grave disservice. It also developed into Paki-bashing, Jew baiting and anything else they could think of.
The three black players at WBA did pave the way for opening up the game to more black players and within a short space of time, there were one or two in most teams.

Thanks for this and quite honestly I had not even thought of the time before the 60s and 70s. I think the Albion had a player called Dennis Foreman who was South African and of mixed race. I also remember Albert Johannnson -was he at Leeds? Yes, you are right and I think it would be hard to accept that the chants would have arisen in the 40s and 50s, certainly in the UK, though it could be that players may have been abused by individuals, and it did not get media attention?? Probably, the fact that immigration had really taken off by the late 70s added to this atmosphere - as you write -an ever-increasing multi-racial society.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I'm with you brother, from now on when I'm cycling to work I'm going to "Fu** our bullsh*t rules" by not stopping at red lights and cycling on the pavement.

Er I've always said you should be on the pavements, off the road and out of our f****** way!

 

[Wrong-Direction]

whoosh

Glad i gave you a laugh though bold, must've been a while..

I haven't laughed at a post that much in ages! [MENTION=27125]Wrong-Direction[/MENTION], the great wager of war against cyclists breaking the rules is actually an anarchist. That is just classic posting Dr.!