So is anyone here on strike?

[sten_super]

Good for her, does she think her colleagues are underpaid?

There are underpaid people in the private sector as well (I'm sure you could start with cleaners in private hospitals). Unfortunately their pension scheme won't be propped up by tax revenues.

 

[Titanic]

Good for her, does she think her colleagues are underpaid?

I wouldn't dare answer for her, but it is not something she complains about... there are plenty of other things that she does complain about though!!

Pay rates 2010/2011 - RCN

 

[Peteinblack]

Blimey - I think someone actually understands !!
When we started work we, all of us, made a choice.
That choice was between a low paid job which had a pension at the end of it and a higher paid job where you had to provide for your own pension
It's no good, after having made that choice , to come on here whining about "the fat cats" cos where i work there ain't any.
What Cameron should be doing in the civil service is to wipe out some of the layers of management which is where most of the money gets wasted - in my particular field there are an eye watering THIRTEEN layers of management most of which do f*** all to actually get their money.

Totally agree. There were no complaints when private sector workers were earning more than public sector workers until a couple of years ago,

As to bureaucrats, I work in a university with more middle managers and administrators than lecturers, and my wife works the NHS and can't move because there are so many people in suits!

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Good for her, does she think her colleagues are underpaid?

I don't know who that ugly bastard is in your avatar, but can you please change it? When reading your posts I can't help thinking that the words are coming from the mouth of that bitter and twisted looking mug, and it's predjudicing my judgement of your arguments. Thanks in anticipation

 

[xenophon]

I don't know who that ugly bastard is in your avatar, but can you please change it? When reading your posts I can't help thinking that the words are coming from the mouth of that bitter and twisted looking mug, and it's predjudicing my judgement of your arguments. Thanks in anticipation

Funnily enough Mark E Smith votes Conservative LOL

 

[bullshit detector]

All you people who are against the strikers should read Robert Tressell's 'Ragged Trousered Philanthropists'
Divide and rule, that's what it's all about - while the rich scum flaunt their wealth and laugh at us
THe bankers who caused this crisis should be in gulags.

 

[BLOCK F]

Which is exactly what is being proposed. All changes are only for future service (or contributions).

I understand that,but I was thinking more the tapering of the retirement age.

 

[Curious Orange]

All you people who are against the strikers should read Robert Tressell's 'Ragged Trousered Philanthropists'
Divide and rule, that's what it's all about - while the rich scum flaunt their wealth and laugh at us
THe bankers who caused this crisis should be in gulags.

Please stop mixing up the structural deficit with the bail-out of the banks.

 

[sten_super]

I think this debate on the Guardian website is quite interesting, and mirrors some of what has been said on here

Public sector pensions: What is fair? | Head to head | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

I would actually agree with the main point that both are trying to make; yes it is a paycut, but that it is on a benefit that is completely out of kilter with what is present in the private sector (and that is largely unfunded).

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Interesting just how many replies see this issue from a partisan political viewpoint, blaming 'The Tories'.

Yes there are political angles but the problems need to be solved, not keep playing the 'blame' game. Some people need a dose of reality. I have some sympathy especially for teachers as they havea vital role in the future well being of the country. But some of the stuff on here from is a bit rich - if you only pay 6% contributions you are then relying on your employer to pay around 20% to top up your final salary pension. You have had years of relatively low contributions and high benefits. Blame your scheme and not the Govt. who are now trying to balance the books. If ignored the structural deficit will spiral out of control leading to a Greek style meltdown that will mean mega job losses and make the pensions issue seem miniscule. Failure to deal with this may create another financial crash.

Even if the structural deficit is addressed there will still be the pensions deficit for teachers and other public sector workers. If ignored then council taxes would go through the roof or lose loads of jobs. Either way we are screwed - just a question of degree, its your choice: be slightly screwed now or totally f****d later?

It is a fact that New Labour created most of the mess by failing to control the banks, allowing a credit fuelled frenzy from '97 onward inspite of Gordon Brown's 'prudence, prudence, prudence' mantra and his tip toeing around the pensions deficit issue.

It is a fact that we have a coalition government because the populace failed to elect one party with a clear majority. However both Lib Dems and Conservatives were committed to tackling the structural deficit, so if you voted for them you knew what you were getting. You cannot start to reduce a £170 billion deficit without taking some painful decisions.

Labour's view is a lighter touch is needed for the economy. Meanwhile the cost of servicing the both the structural deficit and pensions deficit is spiralling. Like many former labour voters my confidence in Labour is shot to pieces, they are a now a busted flush and no one will trust them for years to come.

Whether we are talking about the wider economy or your own personal finances we all have to live within our means. My issue is that the solution could be fairer; get the banks to pay their share, hammer tax avoiders and get countries like Greece to sort out their own culture of tax avoidance before asking for more and more handouts from the EU and IMF (eg 'us'). Meanwhile review pensions across the UK and encourage people to be disciplined, save for their futures so they don't need to rely on credit or handouts either. We can't afford it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There are underpaid people in the private sector as well (I'm sure you could start with cleaners in private hospitals). Unfortunately their pension scheme won't be propped up by tax revenues.

And I will support private as well as public sector workers being screwed over.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I sympathise with the women (public & private sectors) who will have to work another 6 years until 66, as I can't help thinking that more attention should be focussed on those that choose to retire at 16 and live the rest of their lives on welfare. Those on strike today are workers contributing to the system not leeches bleeding it dry.

 

[sten_super]

And I will support private as well as public sector workers being screwed over.

Sorry, you've lost me.

What I'd like is transparency. The best way to introduce this would be to introduce a standard mandatory pension for all, which requires a certain level of individual contribution and a commensurate contribution from the employer (regardless of whether they are public or private sector). I'm not convinced that the obfuscation of worker compensation is for the benefit of anyone other than the employer.

 

[beorhthelm]

I sympathise with the women (public & private sectors) who will have to work another 6 years until 66,

why? they have spent decades wanting equality in the workplace, this is part of the equality.

 

[paddy]

All you people who are against the strikers should read Robert Tressell's 'Ragged Trousered Philanthropists'
Divide and rule, that's what it's all about - while the rich scum flaunt their wealth and laugh at us
THe bankers who caused this crisis should be in gulags.

Two points:
(1) The pensions review has nothing to do with the recent financial crisis - it is a matter of demographics. Pensions liabilities are part of the UK's annually manged expenditure which has little to do with the structural deficit
(2) The financial services industry was responsible for 11% of ALL tax receipts in 2009/10 - that is an enormous contribution and means that the banking industry does contribute a great deal to the cost of public sector pensions. More importantly for our economy, financial services is one of the few sectors we have a trade surplus in - in 2010 it was £36 billion. Also, it is worth remembering that two thirds of those employed in the banking industry work outside London and earn salaries which in many cases are less that the public sector average wage. Our economy, like it or not, relies a great deal on the banking industry and this continual 'banker bashing' is tantamount to shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

[strings]

I can't help thinking that more attention should be focussed on those that choose to retire at 16 and live the rest of their lives on welfare. Those on strike today are workers contributing to the system not leeches bleeding it dry.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

why? they have spent decades wanting equality in the workplace, this is part of the equality.

Because according to Govt statistics they earn 19% less than men and an earlier retirement does something to address this.

 

[sten_super]

Because according to Govt statistics they earn 19% less than men and an earlier retirement does something to address this.

Boring technical point, but that in part reflects the fact that more women work part time, which is typically lower paid that full time work. Take that out and in 2010 the gap was 10.2%. It's also not clear to what degree this is affected by the time some women take out of work to look after a family.

 

[Grapes of Wrath]

Blimey - I think someone actually understands !!
When we started work we, all of us, made a choice.
That choice was between a low paid job which had a pension at the end of it and a higher paid job where you had to provide for your own pension
It's no good, after having made that choice , to come on here whining about "the fat cats" cos where i work there ain't any.

Very good point, which I totally agree with. I have been a Civil Servant for 36 years, in the knowledge that whilst my salary has more often than not been less than friends doing a variety of jobs in the private sector, I could look forward to a half decent pension at 60.......until now!

I work in an office of 400 people, the vast majority of whom earn under £25k, and many far far less than that, only just above minimum wage. Under the existing pension agreement they will get a pension of around £12k per year or less, but only if they have put the full 40 years in. I'm not sure what the percentage of staff who do achieve 40 years is, but I do know that far more do not get the full 40 years in, having started later after further education, women having children etc.

Those public sector workers who get the big bucks and consequently big pensions are numerically in the minority. This is in the main hitting those who can least afford it, the government really need to look at the options again, and discuss with the various unions. They have drawn their line in the sand, and I accept it needs revising, but I am sure that this can be done without the major impact this will have on existing staff who have already put in a substantial number of years, and are probably too old to have a career change.

 

[beorhthelm]

Because according to Govt statistics they earn 19% less than men and an earlier retirement does something to address this.

nothing to do with it. the different pension age goes back to a world and time when women weren't considered able to do as much as men, so could retire early. bless them. times have changed, we now consider the woman worker to be equal to the man, so they should retire at the same age.