So.....are Trident a necessary deterrent?

[Blue Valkyrie]

The big prize Ukraine gained from giving up its nuclear weapons was invasion and territorial annexation by Putin.

 

[alfredmizen]

And I'm sure said Islamic radicalist leaders, should they get hold of nuclear weapons, would be deterred by the prospect of their jihadist, suicide bomber followers being blown up in retaliation [emoji38]ol:

If any radical group gets hold of nuclear weapons, we're screwed regardless. Much better to try and persuade all countries with nuclear weapons to disarm, so we don't face that possibility.

Yeah, good luck with persuading people like this reasonable bloke.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

was there a war then?

You haven't read the article I posted, have you?

 

[alfredmizen]

Patently, although droves of simple folk can only think in terms of black and white, good or evil. We are obviously the good guys, Russians/Chinese/anyone who looks different are clearly the evil monsters. They are so bad that they would visit nuclear holocaust on Britain if we didn't have our paltry nuclear deterrent. Their fingers are poised, just itching to press the button should we scrap trident. No matter that their countries economies and futures (and the personal fortunes of their leaders and families and friend and business associates) are inextricably bound to our economy. They are even so evil that they would throw away their lives and those of their families/cohorts just because, well, just because they are so very, very evil.

Were you Neville Chamberlain in a previous life ?

 

[alfredmizen]

he put them on display on the ships heading for Cuba laughing and joking about it, and he did not use them did he ,so yes I do reckon
were you actually around then?

EDIT
this did not stop the USA backed "bay of pigs" disaster and from what I remember they did not use nuclear arms then

No he didnt, youre talking absolute rubbish, the missile silos were only discovered by a US intelligence analyst on photos taken by a U2 spyplane.

PS The Bay Of Pigs happened BEFORE the missile crisis.

 

[alfredmizen]

was there a war then?

No, precisely because of the threat of Nuclear annihilation

 

[The Birdman]

Give our sailors the best subs we can they do a fantastic job keeping us safe . Yes I wish nobody had nukes but they do and we should be in control of our own destiny . Remember when we tried to be friends with Hiltler with a bit of paper what happened next.

 

[glasfryn]

You haven't read the article I posted, have you?

No, precisely because of the threat of Nuclear annihilation

I don't know whether you are both trying to deliberately ignore the fact that there was not a war, it was all sabre rattling.
the nutcases then would never have gone to war as there was to much to lose
NOW we have absolute nutters who would if they could get hold of these weapons would use them (see picture of one of them above put on by AM) and would not care about Nuclear annihilation.
I will repeat what I SAID EARLIER THE MIDDLE EAST IS WHERE the problem is

 

[BeardyChops]

It worries me that some people think things are so simply black or white. There are so many other factors beyond whether a country has nuclear capability.

How can anyone state categorically things like IF we didn't haven't nukes THEN we would be bombed, or that IF we do have them we'll be safe? You simply can't know.

It's speculation. A gamble either way. Maybe we should vote Tony in as PM, rather than the chest-beating or one of the holding-hands brigade?

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

I don't know whether you are both trying to deliberately ignore the fact that there was not a war, it was all sabre rattling.
the nutcases then would never have gone to war as there was to much to lose
NOW we have absolute nutters who would if they could get hold of these weapons would use them (see picture of one of them above put on by AM) and would not care about Nuclear annihilation.
I will repeat what I SAID EARLIER THE MIDDLE EAST IS WHERE the problem is

FOR THE LAST TIME, the point I was making was that, if not for Vasili Arkhipov, we, in all likelihood wouldn't be here, today, to have this conversation. It wasn't sabre rattling and it wasn't playing games.

 

[Half Time Pies]

I don't know whether you are both trying to deliberately ignore the fact that there was not a war, it was all sabre rattling.
the nutcases then would never have gone to war as there was to much to lose
NOW we have absolute nutters who would if they could get hold of these weapons would use them (see picture of one of them above put on by AM) and would not care about Nuclear annihilation.
I will repeat what I SAID EARLIER THE MIDDLE EAST IS WHERE the problem is

I personally don't buy this idea that there are states out there that have leaders who would use nuclear weapons without caring about the threat of annihilation. For dictators such as Kim Jong-un their main concern is regime survival. The survival of his dictatorship depends on maintaining a sense of threat from the outside world, and giving his impoverished people hope by promoting the military power and the strength of the country under his regime.

There is an argument that the middle east may actually be safer were countries such as Iran to be nuclear armed. A nuclear armed Iran could potentially check the unfettered power of main actors in the region and actually improve stability.

 

[BeardyChops]

"Most of all, the Cuban missile crisis showed that the weapons themselves are the problem. Britain is now in pole position to lead a "nuclear disarmament race". In a 2009 letter to the Times, Field Marshal Lord Bramall and Generals Lord Ramsbotham and Sir Hugh Beach denounced Trident as "completely useless". Ditching the system may be a no-brainer for the generals, but not for politicians afraid of a public opinion that equates nuclear weapons with vague notions of "being strong". And yet getting rid of Trident would gift the Treasury a windfall of more than £25bn – enough to finance a million affordable homes."

Looney leftie Guardian writer no doubt.

 

[Diego Napier]

Were you Neville Chamberlain in a previous life ?

Ah, how easily the ruling classes dupe the masses.

 

[glasfryn]

yep I have read the article again and it still does not change my mind NO WAR HAPPENED nearly did but did'nt.
its OK to say stable(Iran) states? are OK having nuclear weapons, but what about the unstable ones and there are plenty of those who do you strike back at?
what happens if it happens here and please don't say it could'nt (we had a British citizen killed by Russian agents right under our noses not so long ago).
think we are going to have to agree to disagree here
Middle East is the place to watch