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[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10



Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
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Jul 11, 2003
62,681
The Fatherland
It's a done deal. In 10 years he'll be gone, and the cycle continues.

I expect folk will want to know where this money for the choo-choos is coming from.
They’re taking over the operating licenses when they expire. This doesn’t cost much, if anything. The rolling stock is a different matter but they haven’t committed to buying this. The question at the moment isn’t “where does the money comes from” but “what about the rolling stock. “
 




Is it PotG?

Thrifty non-licker
Feb 20, 2017
25,452
Sussex by the Sea




Herr Tubthumper

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Jul 11, 2003
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well, with the government running the licenses you will not see billions of pounds in dividends paid out to shareholders...as there will not be any shareholders. The government have also pledged to add some simple benefits like improve the delay-repay, improve ticketing, digitial tickets etc. One of the big issues is so many companies and so many different ticket types....there will ultimately be one company running the railways so they can use this to simplify tickets. And as the link you posted points out there will not be any fair increases...which has been quite steep in recent years.

Edit: I do not know why I bothered to type this because this is the bit where @Is it PotG? usually goes quiet.
 
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Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
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Jul 16, 2003
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hassocks
well, with the government running the licenses you will not see billions of pounds in dividends paid out to shareholders...as there will not be any shareholders. The government have also pledged to add some simple benefits like improve the delay-repay, improve ticketing, digitial tickets etc. One of the big issues is so many companies and so many different ticket types....there will ultimately be one company running the railways so they can use this to simplify tickets. And as the link you posted points out there will not be any fair increases...which has been quite steep in recent years.

Trains need to be nationalised (among other services) but I don't believe there will be no fare increases to fund All the above.

Fares also need to be cut if they want to get people back onto trains
 




Herr Tubthumper

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Jul 11, 2003
62,681
The Fatherland
Trains need to be nationalised (among other services) but I don't believe there will be no fare increases to fund All the above.

Fares also need to be cut if they want to get people back onto trains
What I posted above does not seem to be overly expensive? It's more a symptom of the current set up than anything else? And half a billion was paid in dividends last year alone so there is some money to pay for imporved delay-repay, improve ticketing, digitial tickets etc.
The government have said fairs will not increase, I presume this will be in their manifesto, so you can hold them to it.

As for decreases, they have been honest and said unlikely BUT I thought rail travel was at a (local) peak at the moment? If not usage is quite relatively high. Maybe the idea is to start making the services better for current users then move onto coaxing new passengers?
 


Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,225
On NSC for over two decades...
They've said they won't take control of the rolling stock.

That's the difficult/expensive bit.

"Re-nationalising the railways" looks eye-catching, certainly, but with the rolling stock companies remaining highly leveraged and privately owned, they're going to struggle to make any impact on fares.

It's difficult and expensive because it is the profitable bit, apparently.
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
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Jul 16, 2003
58,789
hassocks
What I posted above does not seem to be overly expensive? It's more a symptom of the current set up than anything else? And half a billion was paid in dividends last year alone so there is some money to pay for imporved delay-repay, improve ticketing, digitial tickets etc.
The government have said fairs will not increase, I presume this will be in their manifesto, so you can hold them to it.

As for decreases, they have been honest and said unlikely BUT I thought rail travel was at a (local) peak at the moment? If not usage is quite relatively high. Maybe the idea is to start making the services better for current users then move onto coaxing new passengers?

It all adds up and quickly, hopefully you are correct, just can't see it myself.

It's still lower than pre pandemic by the looks of it, it's £15 to Brighton from the nearest station to me if I was to book now, I can't see that as great value v driving, even less so if there is a couple of us going.

Hopefully nationalised rails mean more staff, which seems to be one of the main reasons for cancellation.
 






pb21

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2010
6,684
Being train dense, how can you renationalise railways / passenger rail, rescue fares but not the rolling stock?
 


Herr Tubthumper

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Jul 11, 2003
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It's difficult and expensive because it is the profitable bit, apparently.
I am aware the train leasing companies make huge profits, I think these have tripled over the past few years, but the ToCs do seem to make money judging by their dividend payouts.
 




Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
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Jul 11, 2003
62,681
The Fatherland
It all adds up and quickly, hopefully you are correct, just can't see it myself.

It's still lower than pre pandemic by the looks of it, it's £15 to Brighton from the nearest station to me if I was to book now, I can't see that as great value v driving, even less so if there is a couple of us going.

Hopefully nationalised rails mean more staff, which seems to be one of the main reasons for cancellation.
UK rail travel has rarely been good value. I prefer to not own a car so any cost for trains, cabs or whatever, is partly covered by this.
 








CheeseRolls

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Jan 27, 2009
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Being train dense, how can you renationalise railways / passenger rail, rescue fares but not the rolling stock?
This is a lot more straightforward than you would imagine. Most of the rolling stock is owned by leasing companies such as Angel trains, Porterbrook and Eversholt. The leases will then transfer to the government. The same principle applies when there is a franchise change.
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
56,063
Faversham
well, with the government running the licenses you will not see billions of pounds in dividends paid out to shareholders...as there will not be any shareholders. The government have also pledged to add some simple benefits like improve the delay-repay, improve ticketing, digitial tickets etc. One of the big issues is so many companies and so many different ticket types....there will ultimately be one company running the railways so they can use this to simplify tickets. And as the link you posted points out there will not be any fair increases...which has been quite steep in recent years.

Edit: I do not know why I bothered to type this because this is the bit where @Is it PotG? usually goes quiet.
I salute your indefatigability.

And I confess that I too talk to the cat. But only my own cat.
 


Randy McNob

> > > > > > Cardiff > > > > >
Jun 13, 2020
4,724
Haven't checked in a while but aren't some of the biggest shareholders and owners of the rail franchises other European rail operators?

Maybe the best the way to sell it to right wing dimwits is their fares are subsidising FOREIGN / EUROPEAN Rail companies ?
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
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Jul 16, 2003
58,789
hassocks
UK rail travel has rarely been good value. I prefer to not own a car so any cost for trains, cabs or whatever, is partly covered by this.

Which is fair enough, but some people need/want both

I'm fortunate enough to be able to get public transport to work for a decent fee each month and it's quite enjoyable to listen to music / read on the journey, however, if that went up to the same cost or the at the same rate of price increase as trains, I would drive.
 




CheeseRolls

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Jan 27, 2009
6,230
Shoreham Beach
Accountability will be via the Passenger Standards Authority. I don't imagine this will interest you in the slightest as you have had nothing negative to say about the way that our public services have been "regulated" over the past 14 years. Imagine having independent people scrutinising the railways and holding those running the services accountable.

Do you even use the trains?
 


Herr Tubthumper

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Jul 11, 2003
62,681
The Fatherland
Being train dense, how can you renationalise railways / passenger rail, rescue fares but not the rolling stock?
As I understand it, the railways are broadly split into 3 groups: operating companies, rolling stock leasing companies and track owners. The ToC’s lease from the other two to run the service. The government will take over the roll of the ToC.
 


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