[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10

[sussex_guy2k2]

Right, but those limits are set by the government, not by the bank (who use the only tool they have to curb inflation). Which is why we can, in theory at least, print as much money as we want.

And which is why, circling back to the original point, there’s more than enough money if it’s needed to sort many of the issues out in this country. It’s just a political decision not to by this Tory govt.

Basically, between taxation, QE and borrowing (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/10/government-debt-economy-bonds-loans/ - just for a bit of background knowledge) we’ve got enough cash.

Also, they’re not that independent https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/exp...,carry out our responsibilities independently.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Right, but those limits are set by the government, not by the bank (who use the only tool they have to curb inflation). Which is why we can, in theory at least, print as much money as we want.

And which is why, circling back to the original point, there’s more than enough money if it’s needed to sort many of the issues out in this country. It’s just a political decision not to by this Tory govt.

Basically, between taxation, QE and borrowing (https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/10/government-debt-economy-bonds-loans/ - just for a bit of background knowledge) we’ve got enough cash.

But all the time GDP is shrinking, that taxation is going down and borrowing is going up, even without further investment, unless you are suggesting that increasing borrowing has no other effects

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Also, they’re not that independent https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/explainers/who-owns-the-bank-of-england#:~:text=We are wholly-owned by,carry out our responsibilities independently.

Also, for those interested, there’s a number of good economists on Twitter, like Richard Murphy (@richardjmurphy), who will explain this much better than I can.

 

[pocketseagull]

I do apologise, I misinterpreted my source

The funny thing is that the figure you misinterpreted was a loan arranged by Keynes who you've previously dismissed as an irrelevance.

Anglo-American loan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We borrowed to invest when the country was on it's knees after WWII. Now we just have a weak promise of growth but still sticking to the tory fiscal rules that have got us nowhere.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

But all the time GDP is shrinking, that taxation is going down and borrowing is going up, even without further investment, unless you are suggesting that increasing borrowing has no other effects

I didn’t say the Tory govt were good at governing or financial management. They clearly aren’t.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The funny thing is that the figure you misinterpreted was a loan arranged by Keynes who you've previously dismissed as an irrelevance.

Anglo-American loan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We borrowed to invest when the country was on it's knees after WWII. Now we just have a weak promise of growth but still sticking to the tory fiscal rules that have got us nowhere.

Maybe if you tell me what Keynes is, you can then point out where I've dismissed it as an irrelevance

 

[Machiavelli]

The funny thing is that the figure you misinterpreted was a loan arranged by Keynes who you've previously dismissed as an irrelevance.

Anglo-American loan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We borrowed to invest when the country was on it's knees after WWII. Now we just have a weak promise of growth but still sticking to the tory fiscal rules that have got us nowhere.

And, hmmm, could there be something that desperately needs investment in over the next, say, 25 years (or 26 if you must; or 16 if you'd rather be ambitious and not want to spend more money cleaning up the mess through not making that investment)?

 

[pocketseagull]

Maybe if you tell me what Keynes is, you can then point out where I've dismissed it as an irrelevance

Think it was a reply to Ben Garfield where you dismissed his mention of Keynesian economics, probably about Biden's spending?

John Maynard Keynes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[The Clamp]

For those claiming Starmer has no plan/manifesto.


Here are 24 pages of it. Knock yourselves out.

You may not think it’s any good but there’s no grounds for claiming they don’t have a plan.

Don’t believe the things Sunak and the Daily Heil tell you.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Missions-Document-Lets-Get-Britains-Future-Back.pdf

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

For those claiming Starmer has no plan/manifesto.


Here are 24 pages of it. Knock yourselves out.

You may not think it’s any good but there’s no grounds for claiming they don’t have a plan.

Don’t believe the things Sunak and the Daily Heil tell you.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Missions-Document-Lets-Get-Britains-Future-Back.pdf

Isn’t it more that he’s not very good at talking about and voicing it?

His whole thing seems to be letting the Tories continue to self implode and attacking them, rather than voicing his own policies.

Saying that, it doesn’t help that much of our media is right leaning.

 

[The Clamp]

Isn’t it more that he’s not very good at talking about and voicing it?

His whole thing seems to be letting the Tories continue to self implode and attacking them, rather than voicing his own policies.

Saying that, it doesn’t help that much of our media is right leaning.

Well, quite.

I imagine (hope) he is using his experience as a solicitor to bide his time and deliver a few killer blows at the right time.

As you say, the right wing media have the biggest audience and the loudest voice.

I imagine at this point though, they are shouting into an echo chamber. It’s very unlikely the Tory’s are going to gain any significant new voters before the next GE.

I don’t subscribe to the opinion that Starmer thinks he’s going to swan into power. And I think he’s made great pains to make that clear.

The old tropes of

“He has no plan”

“He thinks he can just stroll into power”

are simply fabrications by the Tory’s and their sympathetic media.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

Well, quite.

I imagine (hope) he is using his experience as a solicitor to bide his time and deliver a few killer blows at the right time.

As you say, the right wing media have the biggest audience and the loudest voice.

I imagine at this point though, they are shouting into an echo chamber. It’s very unlikely the Tory’s are going to gain any significant new voters before the next GE.

I don’t subscribe to the opinion that Starmer thinks he’s going to swan into power. And I think he’s made great pains to make that clear.

The old tropes of

“He has no plan”

“He thinks he can just stroll into power”

are simply fabrications by the Tory’s and their sympathetic media.

I hope so. I think we’ll see what he’s really made of once the election is announced as there’ll be a lot more focus on his policy choices.

I do hope the Greens don’t grab too many votes from them in key seats.

Similarly, I’m torn on Reform taking too many seats from the Tories…

It’s an interesting political landscape right now.

 

[Machiavelli]

I hope so. I think we’ll see what he’s really made of once the election is announced as there’ll be a lot more focus on his policy choices.

I do hope the Greens don’t grab too many votes from them in key seats.

Similarly, I’m torn on Reform taking too many seats from the Tories…

It’s an interesting political landscape right now.

The Greens will not be a decisive force (through tipping the scales to the incumbents in Tory-Labour marginals) in the next election.

 

[ClemFandango]

We borrowed to invest when the country was on it's knees after WWII. Now we just have a weak promise of growth but still sticking to the tory fiscal rules that have got us nowhere.

The problem is the time to go full Keynes was after 2008 when interest rates (ie borrowing costs) were at historic lows. Instead Osborne and Cameron went down the ‘austerity’ route. Trouble is, now interest rates are high again for the foreseeable and governments can’t afford to borrow. Starmer will be in a real bind when Labour wins

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Same old nonsense from you ! …” not about revealing detailed plans” ??
the Labour manifesto is for the people- the voters… if the policies are worthwhile they will stand any amount of scrutiny.

General attitude seems to be ‘we’ve already won so we don’t have to do anything’

Is that what we want from our politicians?

Still your post was not the winner in the lowering expectations stakes today …someone just said it will be 2 terms before we see things improve! Easy life that eh? 10 years of not improving anything and able to blame it on the government from the last decade

You're not keeping up. But vote tory if that's your thing

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

traditionally, having some policies does help with that. so far this year i've seen more about what they wont do, than what they would. at this rate they'll miss an open goal of a large majority as apathy and fringe left groups lose them votes.

<sigh>

As I said to another poster, if you are hellbent on voting tory, fill your boots.

 

[Rdodge30]

You're not keeping up. But vote tory if that's your thing

No not my thing at all- clearly you’re not keeping up?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

No not my thing at all- clearly you’re not keeping up?

What do you want exactly? I have explained many times why Starmer need say little. Should stay little.

The die is cast. Starmer can lose now only by promising something. Anything. The tory gang will simply gaslight it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I found it quite comedic that you are happy to vote for someone to lead our country without them actually telling anybody what it is they plan to do.

Call me old fashioned if you like, but I always prefer to know and understand what it is I'm voting for.

I’m not convinced you understand much at all, let alone Labour policies.

 

[jcdenton08]

Well, I would hope things would improve. It won’t be turned around. I can almost guarantee that.

Right now I’d settle for an immediate halt to the corruption and rot. Then some steady but solid policies actioned to try and reverse the dire straits the Tory’s have landed us in.

Let’s put the fire out first and then set about rebuilding.

Progress not perfection.

Politics is the art of the possible, something which many Labour voters complaining about their shift to the centre don’t understand.