Should UK pay reparations to Jamaica for slavery?

[lawros left foot]

Yes relatively minor in the big scheme of things and rather emotively described if I may say so !

Irish famine 1 million dead, three million displaced, Bengal famine, 1943 3 million dead, Boer war, 55000 civilians, more than all combatants on both sides, Kenya, 1.5 million civilians imprisoned, Indian Independence up to 3 million dead

Pretty emotive I'd say

 

[Soulman]

I haven't denigrated our positive influence on our world at all, in fact in every post of mine on this thread except that one, I have said that we weren't all bad, but, none of the above amounts to a hill of beans if you have been bombed by the RAF, bayonneted by a British squaddie,or starved to death as a consequence of Government policy. Very nearly everything we have done as a country, has been for the benefit of a small percentage of our society, and if others have benefited, that has been more out of luck than judgement

" bayonneted by a British squaddie,or starved to death"

Or in my Uncle's case beaten and starved in a Japanese concentration camp, or in my Dad's case slit from chest to lower belly by a "bayonet" in Malaya 1952, or perhaps in my Grandads case died on the Lancastria 17th June 1940 at Dunkirk. I wonder if other countries populations, especially today's who were not even born, feel as ashamed as many on here seem to.

 

[heathgate]

If the people who had endured slavery were still alive I would take a different view but i do feel a lot of shame for what went on and how the European Nations treated their colonial countries

How about the slavery of the middle east, the far east, the whole African continent, the sub-continent...?..any view of who owes who what amount of compensation in these scenarios?

Just wondering like.

 

[alfredmizen]

As slavery is still having a massive effect in all the places Europeans shipped slaves to, witness America and their race troubles.

I'm not saying everything this country has ever done is bad, but we can't whitewash all our mistakes, and pretend that everything we ever did was beneficial to anyone but us

Its not, it's an excuse.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

C

Irish famine 1 million dead, three million displaced, Bengal famine, 1943 3 million dead, Boer war, 55000 civilians, more than all combatants on both sides, Kenya, 1.5 million civilians imprisoned, Indian Independence up to 3 million dead

Pretty emotive I'd say

How many British died or were imprisoned in that time? Life was hard all over the world not just in the British empire. I'm not excusing the atrocities, but they need to be put into perspective.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

Irish famine 1 million dead, three million displaced, Bengal famine, 1943 3 million dead, Boer war, 55000 civilians, more than all combatants on both sides, Kenya, 1.5 million civilians imprisoned, Indian Independence up to 3 million dead

Pretty emotive I'd say

What history books have you been reading that says that there were 55000 civilians Casualties in the boer war?

 

[lawros left foot]

" bayonneted by a British squaddie,or starved to death"

Or in my Uncle's case beaten and starved in a Japanese concentration camp, or in my Dad's case slit from chest to lower belly by a "bayonet" in Malaya 1952, or perhaps in my Grandads case died on the Lancastria 17th June 1940 at Dunkirk. I wonder if other countries populations, especially today's who were not even born, feel as ashamed as many on here seem to.

See, this is the problem. I served 15 years in the R.N. I am as proud of most of my countries history as anyone else, standing alone against Nazi Germany, the sacrifices of the Tommies in the Great War, Trafalgar and Waterloo, in fact the whole of the late 17th early 18th century wars against France (mainly), the abolition of slavery, and all the other social ,scientific, and humane advances that Britain has made, BUT , it hasn't blinded me to the fact that we,as a nation ,have some very nasty skeletons in our closet. I don't, in fact agree that the descendants of slaves should get compo, only those still living should ever get compo, but, we should be mature enough to admit, we aren't angels.

 

[AmexRuislip]

My work colleague was born in Grenada, he has been in the British Army and intends to retire back to his homeland when retired.
He came to the UK with his parents to live.
He says that the island is solely dependant on tourists and an income from the UK.
Even the Russians are taking an interest in the island!!

I agree that some sort of repatriation should be paid, whether its Jamaica or anywhere in the Commonwealth.

 

[Bold Seagull]

How do you feel about the positive contribution that the British empire had on its colonies?

Pax Britanica - peace - law & order - government - civil service
Public Works - roads - schools
Technology - roads - canals - railways - industry
Freedom - home rule and democracy for Canada - New Zealand - Australia - Hong Kong - Singapore etc
Religion - Religious toleration - Christianity
Medicine - hospitals - vacination - infectious diseases
Commonwealth - shared values and ideals
Trade - Free trade within British Empire / USA and later with French Empire
Slavery - abolition of slave trade and later slavery within the British Empire
Language - India & africa - Unifying World language which helped to break down ethnic and cultural differences

The aqueduct...

sanitation....

and the roads...obviously the roads that goes without saying...

irrigation...Medicine... Education... Health...

and the wine...

Public baths!

And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now.

Yes, they certainly know how to keep order..... let's face it, they're the only ones who could in a place like this.

All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?

...Peace!

What!? Oh...... Peace, yes... shut up!

 

[lawros left foot]

Its not, it's an excuse.

How many African Americans would there be in America if it wasn't for slavery?

 

[lawros left foot]

What history books have you been reading that says that there were 55000 civilians Casualties in the boer war?

Sorry, you're right, it's 48000 including African natives

 

[Soulman]

See, this is the problem. I served 15 years in the R.N. I am as proud of most of my countries history as anyone else, standing alone against Nazi Germany, the sacrifices of the Tommies in the Great War, Trafalgar and Waterloo, in fact the whole of the late 17th early 18th century wars against France (mainly), the abolition of slavery, and all the other social ,scientific, and humane advances that Britain has made, BUT , it hasn't blinded me to the fact that we,as a nation ,have some very nasty skeletons in our closet. I don't, in fact agree that the descendants of slaves should get compo, only those still living should ever get compo, but, we should be mature enough to admit, we aren't angels.

I think over many threads on this board where this subject has cropped up, nearly everyone agrees that we were no "angels", but to keep putting this country down, and i know some love to which beggars the question why do they live here, whilst seemingly attacking people that are worried about the atrocities that are happening now and not in our country, just seems a bit flaky. Whenever the subject comes up the position of some is to drag up our past, in many cases when the desired affect is not taken on board then we see it going back to centuries ago.
As i said, surely we are not that bad as many people from countries that in the PAST we were bad to....seem to be falling over themselves to get here, obviously they do not have long memories, or other reasons.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

See, this is the problem. I served 15 years in the R.N. I am as proud of most of my countries history as anyone else, standing alone against Nazi Germany, the sacrifices of the Tommies in the Great War, Trafalgar and Waterloo, in fact the whole of the late 17th early 18th century wars against France (mainly), the abolition of slavery, and all the other social ,scientific, and humane advances that Britain has made, BUT , it hasn't blinded me to the fact that we,as a nation ,have some very nasty skeletons in our closet. I don't, in fact agree that the descendants of slaves should get compo, only those still living should ever get compo, but, we should be mature enough to admit, we aren't angels.

I agree with all that, but the whole world was a more savage and hostile place then. All European powers were guilty of some form of human exploitation.
That doesn't make it right but I don't feel any guilt when I say that I am PROUD to be British.

 

[heathgate]

Irish famine 1 million dead, three million displaced, Bengal famine, 1943 3 million dead, Boer war, 55000 civilians, more than all combatants on both sides, Kenya, 1.5 million civilians imprisoned, Indian Independence up to 3 million dead

Pretty emotive I'd say

More crap... how many people died during Indian independence? Try again, a million is the top estimate, all caused by Sikh v Hindu v Muslim communal violence. The actual path to independence was largely peaceful.

Boer War was less than you state, and the fookin Bengal famine was in the middle of the war and largely caused by crop failures and cyclones.

 

[lawros left foot]

I agree with all that, but the whole world was a more savage and hostile place then. All European powers were guilty of some form of human exploitation.
That doesn't make it right but I don't feel any guilt when I say that I am PROUD to be British.

We were better at the human exploration thing than nearly every other nation, except perhaps the Spanish in South America, but that aside, we did bring some benefits to the Empire, I don't dispute that, and that alone makes me proud to be British

 

[alfredmizen]

How many African Americans would there be in America if it wasn't for slavery?

Probably not many, how is slavery (abolished 150 odd years ago in the US) still having a massive effect ?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Irish famine 1 million dead, three million displaced, Bengal famine, 1943 3 million dead, Boer war, 55000 civilians, more than all combatants on both sides, Kenya, 1.5 million civilians imprisoned, Indian Independence up to 3 million dead

Pretty emotive I'd say

Emotive as in any pretence that it was deliberate British policy to kill civilians in the numbers you suggest, which is a highly subjective and dubious claim unless you have a particularly one sided historical view.

 

[lawros left foot]

More crap... how many people died during Indian independence? Try again, a million is the top estimate, all caused by Sikh v Hindu v Muslim communal violence. The actual path to independence was largely peaceful.

Boer War was less than you state, and the fookin Bengal famine was in the middle of the war and largely caused by crop failures and cyclones.

Churchill would not allow famine relief to reach Bengal from Canada or America,and when told of the severity of it asked"Is Gandi dead yet?"

 

[heathgate]

Churchill would not allow famine relief to reach Bengal from Canada or America,and when told of the severity of it asked"Is Gandi dead yet?"

I would imagine that fighting to hold back the Japanese and the Nazis was probably a tad distracting for Churchill in 1943.

 

[GT49er]

The tone of my opening posts suggests that I don't agree with this proposal at all but it doesn't stop the far-right numpties on this forum (the usual suspects) seething and foaming at the mouth whenever anything to do with race, migrants or travellers is mentioned.

I'm baffled as to what this thread has to do with race, migrants or travellers - as far as I can see there is no mention of any of those anywhere on this thread until your post, but I guess some people's lives are full of anxiety over Daily Mail readers and the EDF under the bed (the opposite of fear of reds under the bed). Opposing the idea of paying compensation to Jamaica is by no means a far right notion. There is no legal or moral obligation at all.