[Cricket] Should Sussex CCC emulate Gloucestershire?

[el punal]

How about Withdean Stadium? I’m being sort of semi-serious, it’s got transport links with A23/A27 nearby, Preston Park station, and numerous bus routes available. Whether you’ll get planning permission to build stands and other necessary buildings who knows. On the basis that you had 8,000 able to watch Albion matches with no real problems maybe not such a hare brained scheme.

 

[Husty]

I don't even see how this works for Gloucestershire other than a short term plan to raise some money.
If you can't get a crowd in at Nevill Road there's no way you're ever going to persuade more people to go to some site out near Parkway or wherever exactly they have in mind.
It's the same issue Durham have, lovely ground but in the middle of nowhere and they get fobbed off with crap international fixtures and then the ECB act surprised that they haven't been able to sell out. And then it rains.

I suspect the plan really hinges on becoming the sole team in the south west, with a future expansion of the hundred and consolidation of the counties meaning one of Somerset or Gloucestershire has to go. Although putting it near Parkway means its going to be a tough sell for the current crowd that go to Taunton. There is a LOT of development going on around Parkway at the moment - new rail stations, thousands and thousands of new homes, the arena so it would be an urban ground still albeit much further from Bristol city centre than at present.

Bristol fill 17,000 for men's international games comfortably already so its not an issue of not getting in the big crowds for internationals but certainly the point about there already being plenty of well-established test grounds is a valid one. Would agree it feels like a stretch to believe they'd fill it regularly for T20/Hundred games though. Although on the timescales this is envisioning who really knows.

 

[el punal]

Have you been to the Toilet Bowl for county cricket...?

I have, and I also worked there on ‘traffic management’ - car park attendant to you! I hate it. How they ever got permission to build it on green belt land, with absolutely zero transport links on a B road that can’t cope with the traffic is beyond me. With a bit of foresight the whole monstrosity could have been built at Stoneham Lane which is adjacent to the M3, the M27, Southampton airport and Southampton Parkway train station all easily accessible. In fact it was the same site that Saints had planning permission for to build their new stadium when leaving the Dell (that’s another story).

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I suspect the plan really hinges on becoming the sole team in the south west, with a future expansion of the hundred and consolidation of the counties meaning one of Somerset or Gloucestershire has to go. Although putting it near Parkway means its going to be a tough sell for the current crowd that go to Taunton. There is a LOT of development going on around Parkway at the moment - new rail stations, thousands and thousands of new homes, the arena so it would be an urban ground still albeit much further from Bristol city centre than at present.

Bristol fill 17,000 for men's international games comfortably already so its not an issue of not getting in the big crowds for internationals but certainly the point about there already being plenty of well-established test grounds is a valid one. Would agree it feels like a stretch to believe they'd fill it regularly for T20/Hundred games though. Although on the timescales this is envisioning who really knows.

Ah Bristol Arena....

I did my uni design project on that when they were confident it would be built next to Temple Meads.
They can sell 17,000 when they have a decent match there, for matches like the Ireland game last year they won't have built the temporary stand up that high.
As you say, if they want to put another hundred franchise in the south west the existing ground would be plenty big enough.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

If I had TEN POUNDS spare, I'd be happy to place a wager, that The Hundred will have died on its arse before construction of any proposed new stadium is finished.

 

[ROSM]

If I had TEN POUNDS spare, I'd be happy to place a wager, that The Hundred will have died on its arse before construction of any proposed new stadium is finished.

Sadly I fear vitality blast would be susperseded by a city franchise t20 competition when that happens

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I wouldn't be so quick to write off the idea. A lack of vision, coupled by incompetence at ECB and SCCC level have left the club on their knees. Plus it really hasn't done Hampshire any harm. Sussex CCC look like an absolute village outfit these days. Someone needs to find an answer.

Having a millionaire available as chairman hasn't done Hampshire any harm. They still should have been relegated in 2016 if it wasn't for the ECB forcibly relegating Durham (and even accepting that punishment I maintain it would have been fairer to promote Kent to make up the numbers rather than rewarding Hampshire for stinking out the division).
My fundamental question would be which of Sussex's problems would be solved by selling the ground in exchange for some field somewhere that's harder for most of the possible audience to actually get to?

 

[el punal]

Bennett’s field might be a good option.

Ooops!

 

[Beanstalk]

Going to upset a few on this thread, but franchise cricket is here, and it's here to stay. Whether that is an expanded version of The Hundred (most likely) or something else.

The reason Gloucester want to build a 20k stadium in Bristol is that they are the frontrunners for the 9th Hundred team from 2025 (Durham likely to be the 10th). It's going to happen whether Gloucester like it or not so there is a sense of hold on and probably die, or join up and potentially (at least financially) flourish. Whilst the purists may want The Hundred to die, crowds are considerably better than other forms of domestic cricket. The counties should be doing more to make it work for them, especially as they're pretty much all in financial straits.

And for all The Hundred's flaws (and there are plenty) it is by far the most accessible and value for money version out there. I live close to Lords and a couple of years ago I went to both the Blast and the Hundred to see Sussex's "sides" vs Middlesex's "representatives". The t20 (which was a dreadful one sided affair) cost me £40 a ticket and for that I got 40 overs and 269 runs. For the Hundred I paid £27 a ticket, saw 66 overs of cricket (double header for men's and women) and saw 476 runs.

Don't even get me started on the cost of Test match tickets.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Going to upset a few on this thread, but franchise cricket is here, and it's here to stay. Whether that is an expanded version of The Hundred (most likely) or something else.

The reason Gloucester want to build a 20k stadium in Bristol is that they are the frontrunners for the 9th Hundred team from 2025 (Durham likely to be the 10th). It's going to happen whether Gloucester like it or not so there is a sense of hold on and probably die, or join up and potentially (at least financially) flourish. Whilst the purists may want The Hundred to die, crowds are considerably better than other forms of domestic cricket. The counties should be doing more to make it work for them, especially as they're pretty much all in financial straits.

And for all The Hundred's flaws (and there are plenty) it is by far the most accessible and value for money version out there. I live close to Lords and a couple of years ago I went to both the Blast and the Hundred to see Sussex's "sides" vs Middlesex's "representatives". The t20 (which was a dreadful one sided affair) cost me £40 a ticket and for that I got 40 overs and 269 runs. For the Hundred I paid £27 a ticket, saw 66 overs of cricket (double header for men's and women) and saw 476 runs.

Don't even get me started on the cost of Test match tickets.

It isn't surprising that if you subsidise the tickets for a tournament and put a load of money into publicising it, people turn up. Although apparently it's an idea that the ECB hadn't previously considered.

Anyway, it's the way the game's going. They're planning to flog the Hundred (or bits of it at least) off to whoever's willing to pay for it.

ECB seek decision on private investment in Hundred by spring 2024

IPL franchises, private equity firms and sovereign wealth funds among bodies consulted for tournament's future

www.espncricinfo.com

Obviously if they end up selling the tournament itself it'll definitely stay on free to air television to help drive engagement with the sport.
Obviously.

 

[Beanstalk]

Obviously if they end up selling the tournament itself it'll definitely stay on free to air television to help drive engagement with the sport.
Obviously.

Yeah, my point wasn't that The Hundred is either good or bad, it's just that it is currently the best value for money for attendees compared to the traditional formats - which as you say, seems to be born out of an almost inconceivable lack of foresight by the ECB. And if you have a better marketed product, with cheaper entry, the more expensive and less flashy (but more historic) version is hardly going to be able to grab a new audience and fill the grounds.

Regarding the free-to-air thing, and to continue with my cynicism. I think the second we moved Test cricket off free-to-air, we passed through the looking glass. Now Australia have essentially ditched most free-to-air broadcasts in favour of short term money we are in a direction of travel where pretty much all cricket across the world will be behind some form of paywall before too long. The ECB set the trend in 2006. Quite sad really that it's ended up at this point, but if it means that cricket doesn't just become a domestic competition in India (the IPL) with minor offshoots around the world (The Chennai Super Kings of Kansas City or the Sussex and Hampshire Mumbai Indians etc.) then maybe it's more vital for the sport than we realise.

n.b. I do understand that my vision of an IPL lead sport is a big jump but think, financially, that we are quickly heading to a point where the BCCI become more important than the ICC and at that point they'll start to dominate the path of cricket's future with their own financial interests at the core.

 

[timbha]

Yeah, my point wasn't that The Hundred is either good or bad, it's just that it is currently the best value for money for attendees compared to the traditional formats - which as you say, seems to be born out of an almost inconceivable lack of foresight by the ECB. And if you have a better marketed product, with cheaper entry, the more expensive and less flashy (but more historic) version is hardly going to be able to grab a new audience and fill the grounds.

Very well put but I find it sad and a little ironic that you (correctly) use the terms “attendees” and “audience” instead of cricket “lovers” or “fans”.

 

[albionalex]

Going to upset a few on this thread, but franchise cricket is here, and it's here to stay. Whether that is an expanded version of The Hundred (most likely) or something else.

The reason Gloucester want to build a 20k stadium in Bristol is that they are the frontrunners for the 9th Hundred team from 2025 (Durham likely to be the 10th). It's going to happen whether Gloucester like it or not so there is a sense of hold on and probably die, or join up and potentially (at least financially) flourish. Whilst the purists may want The Hundred to die, crowds are considerably better than other forms of domestic cricket. The counties should be doing more to make it work for them, especially as they're pretty much all in financial straits.

And for all The Hundred's flaws (and there are plenty) it is by far the most accessible and value for money version out there. I live close to Lords and a couple of years ago I went to both the Blast and the Hundred to see Sussex's "sides" vs Middlesex's "representatives". The t20 (which was a dreadful one sided affair) cost me £40 a ticket and for that I got 40 overs and 269 runs. For the Hundred I paid £27 a ticket, saw 66 overs of cricket (double header for men's and women) and saw 476 runs.

Don't even get me started on the cost of Test match tickets.

The Hundred loses money whereas the T20's are the only way the Counties make money from ticket sales.

 

[Beanstalk]

The Hundred loses money whereas the T20's are the only way the Counties make money from ticket sales.

Well it depends firstly, how you're measuring making/losing money, and secondly, who is making/losing money.

The main income for the ECB is TV revenue, Sky pay circa £220m a year to broadcast English cricket including The Hundred and the Blast. The pre-Hundred deal was £260m over 4 years. It is a huge money spinning opportunity. The counties each make £1.3m a year currently from The Hundred and this has been described as a lifesaver by many county chiefs. As a comparative figure, Sussex made £708,000 from matchday revenue in 21/22.

Did The Hundred directly fail to make its predicted profit? Probably (though the figures are murky). Does that mean it won't ever make a profit? No. Does the T20 Blast bring in anywhere near enough money to the ECB to sustain the wider game? Not in terms of the global market.

I get that The Hundred is a bit of a taboo in cricket and there is loads I hate about it as well, but pretending that the rest of the game is financially secure, whilst the BCCI and IPL takeover is not the path the ECB should be going down.

 

[amexer]

What a great shame the nway cricket is going. Fact is first to much 20/20 than this hundred joke is killing of 4 day cricket and 50 over. So easy for ECB to say there is little interest. Loads of hidden interest but many like me have given up attending because less games with few with full strength sides and played in April May and September. Plus the great 50 over competition is now a 2nd team game.
I have no doubt if 4 day cricket was played at Hove in the summer with strong sides with proper marketing you could attract 3k plus for the first 3 days. Not much hope for the future though when so many 20/20 tournaments that players can earn in 3 weeks more than they earn in a whole season of championship cricket.
Have great memories of seeing fantastic players at Hove but sorry to say those days have gone mainly because those at top of game are only interested in getting in money from 20/20 and Hundred games.

 

[Husty]

What a great shame the nway cricket is going. Fact is first to much 20/20 than this hundred joke is killing of 4 day cricket and 50 over. So easy for ECB to say there is little interest. Loads of hidden interest but many like me have given up attending because less games with few with full strength sides and played in April May and September. Plus the great 50 over competition is now a 2nd team game.
I have no doubt if 4 day cricket was played at Hove in the summer with strong sides with proper marketing you could attract 3k plus for the first 3 days. Not much hope for the future though when so many 20/20 tournaments that players can earn in 3 weeks more than they earn in a whole season of championship cricket.
Have great memories of seeing fantastic players at Hove but sorry to say those days have gone mainly because those at top of game are only interested in getting in money from 20/20 and Hundred games.

you think 3,000 people paying not a lot for 3 days is going to secure the future of cricket in sussex?

 

[stewart12]

moving the T20 to earlier in the season when it's far from warm has had a big impact. Wasn't that long ago that the County Ground was RAMMED for evening T20 games. Went last season, froze my bollocks off and the ground was half full

Then as for having the Hundred at the same time as the 40 over competition, making it essentially a 2nd XI tournament, do me a favour.

Scrap the Hundred and market the County based T20 blast with the same gusto that they've thrown at the utterly dogshit Hundred (for a start having games live on BBC) otherwise they'll start losing Counties. Very short sighted

 

[albionalex]

Well it depends firstly, how you're measuring making/losing money, and secondly, who is making/losing money.

The main income for the ECB is TV revenue, Sky pay circa £220m a year to broadcast English cricket including The Hundred and the Blast. The pre-Hundred deal was £260m over 4 years. It is a huge money spinning opportunity. The counties each make £1.3m a year currently from The Hundred and this has been described as a lifesaver by many county chiefs. As a comparative figure, Sussex made £708,000 from matchday revenue in 21/22.

Did The Hundred directly fail to make its predicted profit? Probably (though the figures are murky). Does that mean it won't ever make a profit? No. Does the T20 Blast bring in anywhere near enough money to the ECB to sustain the wider game? Not in terms of the global market.

I get that The Hundred is a bit of a taboo in cricket and there is loads I hate about it as well, but pretending that the rest of the game is financially secure, whilst the BCCI and IPL takeover is not the path the ECB should be going down.

Well it is widely reported that in most ways you would measure it, The Hundred made a loss; https://www.sportspromedia.com/news...ral-contracts-yorkshire/?zephr_sso_ott=o2Rays

Of course, in the future it could turn a profit but to your original point, the reason the T20 Blast tickets are more expensive is because the Counties are basically propping up their ticket sales for the season with these games and literally can't afford to offer cheaper tickets.

 

[Eeyore]

If I had TEN POUNDS spare, I'd be happy to place a wager, that The Hundred will have died on its arse before construction of any proposed new stadium is finished.

I'll give you a HUNDRED POUNDS if you can kill it off before then.

 

[Billy in Bristol]

I don't even see how this works for Gloucestershire other than a short term plan to raise some money.
If you can't get a crowd in at Nevill Road there's no way you're ever going to persuade more people to go to some site out near Parkway or wherever exactly they have in mind.
It's the same issue Durham have, lovely ground but in the middle of nowhere and they get fobbed off with crap international fixtures and then the ECB act surprised that they haven't been able to sell out. And then it rains.

Very late to this conversation but agree totally on Nevil Road...it is a short term attempt to cash in on a prime housing area, like with the flats they built at the Ashley Down Road end. The comment about Durham Internationals equally applies here.