Should Doctors' leaders go to PRISON

[happypig]

IF they aren't to fall foul of the European Working Time Directive, which limits the hours people can be forced to work, then they'll either need to employ more consultants or accept that the 3.5 days a week they work (I don't know if this is right but assume so) will be spread out over 7 days instead of 5.
Just because the Health Secretary tells them to work weekends, doesn't suddenly mean there are 40% more of them.

Personally, though, I love working shifts because I get more days off than monday to friday workers, some of them in 7 day blocks, and everywhere is quieter during the week.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

When I was in hospital for three weeks last year, all I saw of doctors was them traipsing around the place in gangs of three, four or five, while a junior read things off a clipboard. And you thought the railways were overstaffed!

 

[Biscuit]

What a nasty Government we have.

 

[Biscuit]

When I was in hospital for three weeks last year, all I saw of doctors was them traipsing around the place in gangs of three, four or five, while a junior read things off a clipboard. And you thought the railways were overstaffed!

You think the NHS is overstaffed?!?!

 

[El Presidente]

while a junior read things off a clipboard.

Was that Bob Booker?

 

[beorhthelm]

...the 3.5 days a week they work (I don't know if this is right but assume so) will be spread out over 7 days instead of 5.

i gather that is the idea.

What a nasty Government we have.

nasty? the background to this is that admissions over the weekend have a significantly poorer outcomes than those during the week, largely because there are no consultants around. so the obvious solution (though not made for 60 years, or did it change?) is to have some consultants cover the the weekend. so what is nasty about wanting to improve the clinical outcomes for patients?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

They wouldn't be working 7 days a week. The weekend work would be done on a shift rota system.

Have you already seen the rosters

 

[Hastings gull]

What a nasty Government we have.

I have this image in front of me: Biscuit is taken acutely ill on Saturday morning; He is left at home in great pain for 4 hours before an ambulance arrives due to reduced weekend working, then outside the hospital for a further three hours as we cannot expect many A&E doctors to work either.
Once inside, the pain gets worse, and he is told that " here are a few pills, you have until Monday to put up with this" and hopefully by Monday, but definitely Tuesday, once the consultant has cleared his weekend backlog, he will be seen. Biscuit then thanks everyone as he did not wish to put anyone to any inconvenience and he and his family will happily put up with three days of agony again.
Or your comment about the government was sarcastic?

 

[Ernest]

[MENTION=13530]bhadebenhams[/MENTION] spotted EARLIER in George Street

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I have this image in front of me: Biscuit is taken acutely ill on Saturday morning; He is left at home in great pain for 4 hours before an ambulance arrives due to reduced weekend working, then outside the hospital for a further three hours as we cannot expect many A&E doctors to work either.
Once inside, the pain gets worse, and he is told that " here are a few pills, you have until Monday to put up with this" and hopefully by Monday, but definitely Tuesday, once the consultant has cleared his weekend backlog, he will be seen. Biscuit then thanks everyone as he did not wish to put anyone to any inconvenience and he and his family will happily put up with three days of agony again.
Or your comment about the government was sarcastic?

Although in reality he will have to make his own way to A&E

 

[Biscuit]

nasty? the background to this is that admissions over the weekend have a significantly poorer outcomes than those during the week, largely because there are no consultants around. so the obvious solution (though not made for 60 years, or did it change?) is to have some consultants cover the the weekend. so what is nasty about wanting to improve the clinical outcomes for patients?

I have this image in front of me: Biscuit is taken acutely ill on Saturday morning; He is left at home in great pain for 4 hours before an ambulance arrives due to reduced weekend working, then outside the hospital for a further three hours as we cannot expect many A&E doctors to work either.
Once inside, the pain gets worse, and he is told that " here are a few pills, you have until Monday to put up with this" and hopefully by Monday, but definitely Tuesday, once the consultant has cleared his weekend backlog, he will be seen. Biscuit then thanks everyone as he did not wish to put anyone to any inconvenience and he and his family will happily put up with three days of agony again.
Or your comment about the government was sarcastic?

I understand the problem better than most. My soon to be father in law suffered with a very large and very life-threatening brain tumour two years ago. He's lucky to be alive after being left unattended on a weekend - it was a **** up that he nearly paid for with his life. So I'm aware more than most about the need to have adequate staffing on weekends thank you very much. My point, which admittedly I wasn't making clear, was you can't just change the goalposts on what is expected from our Doctors. The Doctors are fighting to defend their conditions, conditions which were outlined in their contract - a contract that the Government agreed to. Making the NHS a proper, seven day healthcare provider is to be commended, but it needs paying for - that money has to come from somewhere. If you or I had our contracts changed and we were asked to work longer, or more frequent hours, without satisfactory reimbursement we'd have every right to feel aggrieved.

Two of my immediate family members are Nurses, and I have many more friends who have roles within the NHS. It needs more staff and better pay, not a constant reworking of their working conditions and contracts. It's quite frankly miraculous anyone choses to join the NHS from what I've seen of it. It must be a calling.

 

[beorhthelm]

...The Doctors are fighting to defend their conditions, conditions which were outlined in their contract - a contract that the Government agreed to. Making the NHS a proper, seven day healthcare provider is to be commended, but it needs paying for - that money has to come from somewhere. If you or I had our contracts changed and we were asked to work longer, or more frequent hours, without satisfactory reimbursement we'd have every right to feel aggrieved.

well who ever brought about the change that allowed opting out of weekend cover is a complete idiot. we are where we are, the change proposed is to ask the consultants to change (to opt in presumably) or enforce new contracts for new consultants. no enforced change to anyone. so other than the BMA not liking the communication of this (which was a bit off), is anyone against this policy?

 

[Hastings gull]

I understand the problem better than most. My soon to be father in law suffered with a very large and very life-threatening brain tumour two years ago. He's lucky to be alive after being left unattended on a weekend - it was a **** up that he nearly paid for with his life. So I'm aware more than most about the need to have adequate staffing on weekends thank you very much. My point, which admittedly I wasn't making clear, was you can't just change the goalposts on what is expected from our Doctors. The Doctors are fighting to defend their conditions, conditions which were outlined in their contract - a contract that the Government agreed to. Making the NHS a proper, seven day healthcare provider is to be commended, but it needs paying for - that money has to come from somewhere. If you or I had our contracts changed and we were asked to work longer, or more frequent hours, without satisfactory reimbursement we'd have every right to feel aggrieved.

Two of my immediate family members are Nurses, and I have many more friends who have roles within the NHS. It needs more staff and better pay, not a constant reworking of their working conditions and contracts. It's quite frankly miraculous anyone choses to join the NHS from what I've seen of it. It must be a calling.

Thank you and had you written this in the first place, then the replies would of course have been very different. Yes, their contracts were agreed in 2003, actually by Labour, and since the contracts were then changed to give doctors more weekends off, to put it simplistically, the precedent was set to change contracts. I am not sure why you would now object to the present government doing exactly that, other than the doctors might now not be so happy. The goal posts were changed then, and the doctors were more than happy with that at the time. I am not sure that they would be asked to work longer, just that the service needs to have greater cover at weekends, and as you say, you know more than most how important this is. Quite how this can be achieved I don't know, and it is possible that more staff will be needed, as you rightly claim.They might have to forego some of their lucrative private work, perish the thought. As to whether they would not receive satisfactory reimbursement, I assume that this is you adding this to lend a bit of credence to your view - do you really know that this will be the case? I suspect not.

 

[BLOCK F]

Have you already seen the rosters

Don't be silly, SOG. and if you don't want change, let us hope you or family don't get admitted to hospital with a serious illness at the weekend!

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Thank you and had you written this in the first place, then the replies would of course have been very different. Yes, their contracts were agreed in 2003, actually by Labour, and since the contracts were then changed to give doctors more weekends off, to put it simplistically, the precedent was set to change contracts. I am not sure why you would now object to the present government doing exactly that, other than the doctors might now not be so happy. The goal posts were changed then, and the doctors were more than happy with that at the time. I am not sure that they would be asked to work longer, just that the service needs to have greater cover at weekends, and as you say, you know more than most how important this is. Quite how this can be achieved I don't know, and it is possible that more staff will be needed, as you rightly claim.They might have to forego some of their lucrative private work, perish the thought. As to whether they would not receive satisfactory reimbursement, I assume that this is you adding this to lend a bit of credence to your view - do you really know that this will be the case? I suspect not.

I thought the idea behind it was to allow consultants to earn £200 an hour at weekends as agency or bank staff within the NHS and give up doing the private work ? You can see why the BMA is upset as their members will be severely out of pocket.

 

[Hastings gull]

I thought the idea behind it was to allow consultants to earn £200 an hour at weekends as agency or bank staff within the NHS and give up doing the private work ? You can see why the BMA is upset as their members will be severely out of pocket.

Quite frankly, I can't, not that I dispute what you write, by the way. For an 8 hour shift this would give them £1600.00 a day, and they would be severely out of pocket. Either the sums for private work come to well over this for a day,which it might, but I don't know. and/or there is just sheer greed on the part of the BMA.

 

[El Presidente]

I'm just relieved that the government had the foresight to plan for the extra demand for consultants by expanding the capacity of medical schools when they first came to power in 2010............oh.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I'm just relieved that the government had the foresight to plan for the extra demand for consultants by expanding the capacity of medical schools when they first came to power in 2010............oh.

On a technicality , they shared power with the LibDems , ALLEGEDLY.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

They shouldn't go to PRISON they should be SHOT, how DARE they stick up for their conditions and contract the GOVERNMENT agreed to

D

So we shouldn't expect the same standard of care 7 days a week in our Hospitals in the 21st century, despite the billions poured into the NHS?

 

[El Presidente]

On a technicality , they shared power with the LibDems , ALLEGEDLY.

To be fair to the LD's, given the significant shift to the right since being elected (tax cuts for the rich, benefit cuts, emasculation of the BBCand unions, May's rules on international graduates and attempt to reintroduce hunting) it did appear that Clegg was the equivalent of Jiminy Cricket for the last administration.