Shoreham Air show crash

[swindonseagull]

Planes are designed to glide to safety in most circumstances* but there is always/often a critical height on take off where it is not possible. *I still find this hard to believe but we were told this at a Coroner's Inquest (I was on the jury). Apparently this also applies to helicopters.

There are other things that apply as well. On take off and presumably at air shows some technical person will be watching for imminent faults. Risk assessment should apply at air shows. Organisers should predict the worst. Shoreham is very strong on exhibitions and everybody has to do them. The worst fear of organisers.

For a plane to 'glide' it needs altitude and forward speed, Helicopters autorotate which also requires altitude and forward speed.
Autorotation ( in simple terms) is where the gearbox which drives the rotor head disconnects from the engive via a clutch system allowing the rotor to spin, The rotor blades are of course providing the lift for the aircraft. This will only allow the helicopter to land it will not allow it to fly to the nearest airport.

Large aircraft have been know to run out of fuel and glide many miles, ( http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/10/world/jet-pilot-who-saved-304-finds-heroism-tainted.html ) the hydraulics for controls being pressureised by freespining engines ( the pumps are directly on the gearbox) also they have a RAT ( Ram air turbine ) which is deployed from the belly and uses a propellor and the forward speed to run a pump to operate vital hydraulics.....anyway I digress.

As for technicians looking out for intermittent failures on take off that does not happen, However there will be an airshow commitee existing f very experienced aircrew who can give a pilot a red card and that pilot is to land or depart the airfield immediatly, A red card can be given for any dangerous manouvre or a monouvre that is not in the pre agreed display plan.

I have been an Aircraft engineer for 35 years and have resisted posting on this thread, I feel so bad for the losses of people who had nothing to do with the airshow, The CAA rightly so have said vintage aircraft can now only fly gentle manouvres and not aerobatics, The Vulcan has been cleared to fly its normal display as its not deemed aerobatic.
The Red Arrows and other military aircraft are legislated my the MAA (Military Aviation Authority) so those display teams will still be able to carry out aerobatics ( at the moment)
Now the AAIB ( air accident investigation branch) have a massive job to find out what happened.
There are 2 threads on Pprune which are worth a read but way to technical...

RIP to all who lost thier lives that day.

 

[glasfryn]

my Grandson was in that queque at those traffic lights a fair way back, just shows how close it can be, poor little sod was afraid to tell us.
sleep tight you eleven you will never be forgotten.

 

[Maldini]

My niece made it to the roundabout at Lancing sports centre and saw the smoke behind her.
She was one of the lucky ones on that road and fate didn't want to take her that day.

Until all the victims are named and the A27 is cleared and re-opened the process of moving on cannot start.
Moving on for the families of victims and also the many thousands who live nearby
who's lives have been dominated by this one story since Saturday.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

As a born and bred Shorehamite of 37 years, this whole thing has left me in pieces. I wasn't there – en route to the Amex on a bus with the Junior Bobkins – and I didn't know any of those that have died, but it has really got to me.

The Toll Bridge is half a mile away from my current home, and the house I grew up in. I've lost count of the number of times I've been across it, and through those traffic lights. To see it across national and international media has been so surreal, and very saddening, given the circumstances.

My favourite view in the world is from the second car park up Mill Hill, looking down onto Shoreham-by-Sea, the airport and the surrounding areas. I ran up there yesterday morning, sat on the bench and just looked as the amazing support crew got on with their work – whether that be forensics, clearing the scene, or fixing the road. I then went back down and walked across the Toll Bridge to see the flowers (and some TV crews) and to take it all in. I'm not normally a fan of floral tributes, but (maybe because it is close to home, literally), I was amazed by all of the flowers, messages, cards, football shirts and mementos.

The whole place had been so different early on Saturday morning as I ran through the airport, and saw excited punters gagging to get through the gates into the airshow. Amazing weather as well – since Sunday all it seems to have done in Shoreham-by-Sea is rain, which kinda reflects the mood in the town, sadly.

The club's response has been nothing short of amazing, and it means a lot to me – as a fan and as a resident – to see things like Paul Barber going to visit grieving parents, for teams to head down to the Toll Bridge to pay their respects, and for them to seemingly do as much as they can to help the support teams and the local community.

The answers to why and how this happened can wait – the experts are working on it, and have said it may take months or even years. What matters now is that the families of the victims get the support they need and (to a much lesser extent) the community bounces back. They have already done this in so many ways, and have gone out of their way to provide food, clothes, their own services, and other bits of help wherever they can. I'm proud to be a part of such a community.

Apologies for the slightly self-indulgent ramble – It's the first time I've properly put into words my thoughts on it, and this place seemed the best place to do it.

GB

 

[Woodchip]

RIP Mark Reeves
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1362...dfather_named_as_fifth_victim_confirmed_dead/

 

[LamieRobertson]

As a born and bred Shorehamite of 37 years, this whole thing has left me in pieces. I wasn't there – en route to the Amex on a bus with the Junior Bobkins – and I didn't know any of those that have died, but it has really got to me.

The Toll Bridge is half a mile away from my current home, and the house I grew up in. I've lost count of the number of times I've been across it, and through those traffic lights. To see it across national and international media has been so surreal, and very saddening, given the circumstances.

My favourite view in the world is from the second car park up Mill Hill, looking down onto Shoreham-by-Sea, the airport and the surrounding areas. I ran up there yesterday morning, sat on the bench and just looked as the amazing support crew got on with their work – whether that be forensics, clearing the scene, or fixing the road. I then went back down and walked across the Toll Bridge to see the flowers (and some TV crews) and to take it all in. I'm not normally a fan of floral tributes, but (maybe because it is close to home, literally), I was amazed by all of the flowers, messages, cards, football shirts and mementos.

The whole place had been so different early on Saturday morning as I ran through the airport, and saw excited punters gagging to get through the gates into the airshow. Amazing weather as well – since Sunday all it seems to have done in Shoreham-by-Sea is rain, which kinda reflects the mood in the town, sadly.

The club's response has been nothing short of amazing, and it means a lot to me – as a fan and as a resident – to see things like Paul Barber going to visit grieving parents, for teams to head down to the Toll Bridge to pay their respects, and for them to seemingly do as much as they can to help the support teams and the local community.

The answers to why and how this happened can wait – the experts are working on it, and have said it may take months or even years. What matters now is that the families of the victims get the support they need and (to a much lesser extent) the community bounces back. They have already done this in so many ways, and have gone out of their way to provide food, clothes, their own services, and other bits of help wherever they can. I'm proud to be a part of such a community.

Apologies for the slightly self-indulgent ramble – It's the first time I've properly put into words my thoughts on it, and this place seemed the best place to do it.

GB

Having been here 56 years i truly know how you feel and thanks for typing that ..i'd felt i was almost being self indulgent with my now feelings but it helps to know that we have similar history and feel the same way

 

[Lady Whistledown]

£775

https://www.justgiving.com/JacobsREMFwalk/

Donations so far, it should be pointed out, include one from Steve Browett, co-owner of Crystal Palace (says it's his son in the REMF photograph with Jacob).

Nice one, Mr Browett.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Having been here 56 years i truly know how you feel and thanks for typing that ..i'd felt i was almost being self indulgent with my now feelings but it helps to know that we have similar history and feel the same way

Thanks Lamie.

 

[Napier's Knee]

Thanks Lamie.

I'm with Lamie. Thanks for saying what I've been struggling to say. As the saying goes - Together!

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Just seen the update on the BBC Sussex page about the latest victim. Shocking from the press

 

[poidy]

Shocking from the press

How do you mean?

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

How do you mean?

I cant copy and paste on here but basically says the press announced details against the family wishes before the bloke has been formally identified. They went knocking on the family door for details and printed the story anyway despite being told to do one. Scum.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I cant copy and paste on here but basically says the press announced details against the family wishes before the bloke has been formally identified. They went knocking on the family door for details and printed the story anyway despite being told to do one. Scum.

Which paper? Name and shame.

 

[Hillian1]

Donations so far, it should be pointed out, include one from Steve Browett, co-owner of Crystal Palace (says it's his son in the REMF photograph with Jacob).

Nice one, Mr Browett.

Thank you Mr Browett.

 

[Terry Butcher Tribute Act]

Which paper? Name and shame.

Mail and Mirror. Such a shame when a majority have handled this tragedy brilliantly. As i say, BBC Sussex facebook feed has the full quotes

 

[Maldini]

A young lad I knew a little died in Findon this week on the road.I don't know if he was taking the re-route,if he lived that way anyway,
or if the increased traffic caused his death however it seems the air crash may have indirectly killed him also.

 

[British Bulldog]

I cant copy and paste on here but basically says the press announced details against the family wishes before the bloke has been formally identified. They went knocking on the family door for details and printed the story anyway despite being told to do one. Scum.

The press have also been knocking on random people's doors in the local area looking for anybody who has got a story to tell, Utter scumbags.

 

[perseus]

Mail and Mirror. Such a shame when a majority have handled this tragedy brilliantly. As i say, BBC Sussex facebook feed has the full quotes

Message was sent by EMail with a specific request to share by relations rather than the family. Even then I did not share it in case there was a mistake, not until the local press shared it. Then I was happy about the ID of the sender.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Just seen the update on the BBC Sussex page about the latest victim. Shocking from the press

Just read the page and shared it.

I think that Sussex people should now boycott the Mail and Mirror, including online, the same way no Scouser will touch The Sun.

 

[Everest]

[tweet]636816262300061696[/tweet]