Shame On You Celtic

[Digweeds Trousers]

As a Catholic born in Scotland I can say with some reasonable validity (although please dont jump down my throat Simster as yes, I do live in T Wells these days and am not proclaiming to be an expert or up to date on the matter) that there is a genuine disappointment in many of my elders (uncles etc) with this recent business and many other examples of Celtic fans or Rangers fans hijacking sports events to remind a wider audience of their ignorance.

Tragically what happens is exactly what has ocurred (understandably) on this thread. the actions of these twats then is used as a wider example of the problems with various countries or parts of society.

Its interesting that on a current thread regarding the MK Dons v AFC Wimbledon game, many posters on here were completely understanding of AFC's temptation not to play the game - that history shows they were treated badly and that this should not be forgotten.

I am NOT suggesting that this then makes the Celtic fans actions agreeable - but to me it raises the point that how can anyone decide when history should be forgotten - human nature just does not allow it.

Many Irish, Scots, Boers, Indians et al will be able to point to murderous episodes from their Colonial visitors which if constantly harked back to would mean none of us have a chance of progress.

With Celtic it seems that there are 'supporters' who still feel the need to display disgust or contempt at every opportunity to an audience they seem to connect with the British government or military.

Hard really to come up with a 'right' or 'wrong' answer.

 

[sydney]

celtic are a catholic club......they are arguably the biggest club in scotland support -wise......that banner is a massive stunt and the powers that be at the club deserve a good talking to and possibly a fine for allowing it to be displayed........we all know why they may have grievences with the English , how or why such banners are allowed to be displayed at such an event is a justified question imho.......

tyrone........the abbo's are much more of a basket case than the irish ever were,your comparisons are actually ridiculous ....no offence meant...

 

[Igor Gurinovich?]

If we gloss over the fact many Irish fought in both World Wars and that the English armies killing many innocents while taking over colonies hundreds of years ago including Ireland, then correct I guess?

But probably best to consign England's proud history pre-1900's to the locked books in this argument or no-ones point on here is valid. Be interested to see if anyone can find some details of any English wars pre 1914 that were not about expansion of the British Empire (read taking land from someone else or protecting land taken from someone else).

That said, time for them to forgive and forget because it's not like England still have military rule in Northern Ireland anymore. What, still 1500 troops there you say?

what about the civil war? i dont think the origins of that were related to the expansion of the Empire....

I'm generalising of course, but by that logic shouldnt any nation with 'foreign' troops on their soil retain a bigoted stance?

 

[Tooting Gull]

A physics graduate writes: a quantum leap is an electron jumping between energy levels within an atom and to all intents and purposes the smallest physical distance that is possible.

Sorry to be a pedant but having spent the best part of 4 years of my life wasting it by studying the damn things it irks me considerably when the phrase is misused.

I stand corrected, and I think you may have earned the right to a bit of pedantry on the subject.

However, you may have lost the battle on common usage!

 

[Brovion]

I don't actually agree with much of what Tyrone is saying - but to claim he can't have a view because he's not in the UK is absurd. What do you really know about the east end of Glasgow living in Sussex. Nothing. It's as much a quantum leap as Oz, possibly further in some ways.

Well my Nan came from Springburn, I went there a lot as a child and I still visit Glasgow as I've got relatives there. So, yes, I do know a bit about it actually. And anyone in Britain picks up far more of the nuances of things like the history of the Old Firm than someone who has only learnt about it second or third hand and has best only has a 'broad brush' view.

Don't waste any sympathy on Tyrone, he considers himself part of the Irish Diaspora and sadly a lot of them still live in the past.. On this Poppy issue he's as lonely as a Coatbridge protestant as Nana used to say.

 

[Brovion]

That is absolute bollocks im afraid. I have studied history all my life (Russia being a speciality) but have little knowledge on this issue. Id imagine 99% of the population of the UK would be the same.

Yeah, fair comment from a history perspective. But this isn't history, it's become a mixture of history and current affairs with the current affairs being hijacked and harnassed to an ancient grudge.

I could also add that half the West's problems stem from the fact that we think we 'know' a country because we've studied it - but that's a different argument!"

 

[Tooting Gull]

Well my Nan came from Springburn, I went there a lot as a child and I still visit Glasgow as I've got relatives there. So, yes, I do know a bit about it actually. And anyone in Britain picks up far more of the nuances of things like the history of the Old Firm than someone who has only learnt about it second or third hand and has best only has a 'broad brush' view.

Don't waste any sympathy on Tyrone, he considers himself part of the Irish Diaspora and sadly a lot of them still live in the past.. On this Poppy issue he's as lonely as a Coatbridge protestant as Nana used to say.

I'm sure many people have relatives and have visited Glasgow, that's not the same as living there and growing up in the culture. And the main point stands - second hand is second hand, wherever you are. Do you really think the rest of the UK understands all the nuances? I just don't believe that is true. They get the basics, but not all of it. You'd have to go there, live it for a bit, be in the bars and pubs, go to games.

And I'm not overly sympathetic, couldn't really give too much of a toss about the issue. It's just obviously absurd to measure someone's understanding solely from where they live, especially when it's coming from other people who also don't live in Glasgow.

 

[Ecosse Exile]

OK i live in a small town just outside of Glasgow called Larkhall, Larkhall as im sure the other scottish members on here will agree is possibly the most orange town in the U.K. outside of Northern Ireland.

I grew up in the southside of Glasgow and was brought up to support Rangers, i moved away at the age of eight (to Brighton) but always followed Rangers from afar, however once the bug of the Albion bit Rangers were very much a second team.

I moved back up here in 2002 (to Larkhall) and only then did i really appreciate the full extent of the bigotry that surrounds the two scottish giants. I had intended to get a season ticket at Ibrox but was soon put off by the ignorance of the people amongst whom i live. In fact i was so put off that i dont even look out for who their next game is against anymore, although i would still rather they won it anyway.

There are not many Celtic fans around here and those that are keep their heads fairly low, however through work i have got to know quite a few and on the whole they seem to be fairly decent people as are most Rangers fans. Most will be uttely appalled by the actions of these fans.

I know im waffling, but so are most of you experts in sussex (and Australia) however you are all entitled to your views as are those who displayed them at Celtic Park at the weekend. My view is that these people are scum as are those who used to rattle collection tins around the pubs in Parkhead "for the cause". This is Scotland not Eire, It is BRITISH soil whether the Green Brigade like it or not. This has f*** all to do with social deprivation or anything else that Tyrone was trying to excuse it with, it is purely and simply ignorance and extreme bad taste to anyone who has fought for this country or lost a loved one who died fighting for this country. Its got f*** all to do with Generals sending troops off to die with bad decisions either, the poppy is a mark of respect thats all.

You may or may not be aware that Rangers have been threatened with points deductions if their fans continue to sing songs such as the Billy Boys which are deemed to be Bigotist, Celtic have no such sanctions hanging over them. Maybe a points deduction would teach some of their fans respect.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Don't waste any sympathy on Tyrone, he considers himself part of the Irish Diaspora and sadly a lot of them still live in the past.. On this Poppy issue he's as lonely as a Coatbridge protestant as Nana used to say.

Sympathy?

How wrong you are.

I have a Protestant grandmother from Newcastle and a Protestant Grandfather from the Dumfries area.

So you see i'm not so narrow minded as to look at an action and just assume it is what is.

People do things for a reason.

If you want to live in a world where only your view is right that's fine.

I'd rather take the time to try and understand why so many and varied people around the world are pissed off, like in this case.

My Grandmother always taught me never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

Pretty sound advice in my opinion.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

I don't mean to triviliase the thread, but whoever tagged this thread, take a bow.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

tyrone........the abbo's are much more of a basket case than the irish ever were,your comparisons are actually ridiculous ....no offence meant...

Shouldn't call them "abbos" it'll get you in a lot of trouble

What makes you think the Aboriginals are basket cases?

White Australian society has every bit as much social issues with drugs and alcohol as the Aboriginal comunities do.

It's only the remoteness of some of their communities that is the dagger blow.

I guess to you it appears they are "basket cases". But they have never formed any groups like the IRA etc to push their point.

So surely their less conquest like ways means they aren't basketcases but a culture that just differed from the more war like ones we came from.

 

[Pot noodles for everyone]

Sympathy?

How wrong you are.

I have a Protestant grandmother from Newcastle and a Protestant Grandfather from the Dumfries area.

So you see i'm not so narrow minded as to look at an action and just assume it is what is.
.

You may claim not to be narrow-minded but you are a bullshitter though. This from a few years back:

Sorry you must have mistaken me for someone else, I have no English in me so England isn't my mother country

North Stand Chat - View Single Post - Boris Johnson - Ping Pong is coming home

 

[Brovion]

I'm sure many people have relatives and have visited Glasgow, that's not the same as living there and growing up in the culture. And the main point stands - second hand is second hand, wherever you are. Do you really think the rest of the UK understands all the nuances? I just don't believe that is true. They get the basics, but not all of it. You'd have to go there, live it for a bit, be in the bars and pubs, go to games.

And I'm not overly sympathetic, couldn't really give too much of a toss about the issue. It's just obviously absurd to measure someone's understanding solely from where they live, especially when it's coming from other people who also don't live in Glasgow.

Well we'll just have to disagree; I don't think it's absurd at all. And whilst I would never say I was 'brought up' in the culture (for which I am extremely grateful) I've been having holidays in Glasgow since the 1960s. And believe you me Springburn is not a tourist destination. I would maintain that my immediate family connections means I have more of a feeling and more of an understanding than someone who lives 12000 miles away and has only ever (at best) briefly visited the place. And even if I didn't have the background I would still maintain that I had more feeling as living in Britain you WILL meet more people who have a real involvment and it's not just something you study from afar - which I agree one can do from anywhere.

But apart from the end of the last sentence like I say, it looks like we don't agree.

 

[Brovion]

Sympathy?

How wrong you are.

I have a Protestant grandmother from Newcastle and a Protestant Grandfather from the Dumfries area.

So you see i'm not so narrow minded as to look at an action and just assume it is what is.

People do things for a reason.

If you want to live in a world where only your view is right that's fine.

I'd rather take the time to try and understand why so many and varied people around the world are pissed off, like in this case.

My Grandmother always taught me never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.

Pretty sound advice in my opinion.

It IS sound advice. And if you're not as narrow-minded as you claim perhaps you can see the error of your ways. It wasn't an anti-war protest and it wasn't oppressed members of the working class making a statement.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

You may claim not to be narrow-minded but you are a bullshitter though. This from a few years back:



North Stand Chat - View Single Post - Boris Johnson - Ping Pong is coming home

She's from Newcastle AUSTRALIA, of Irish parents. Check it out on a map.

Nice try though.

So I still don't have any English blood in me, though I do have plenty of Protestant relatives.

So the point was(granted not put acrossthat well) is that I don't have some vested interest in siding with the "Irish diaspora" as was levelled at me.

Plenty of great people on here to illustrate the fact that the English are in fact a decent mob.

So excuse me if I just can't take to the blinkered bigots.

 

[Pot noodles for everyone]

She's from Newcastle AUSTRALIA, of Irish parents. Check it out on a map.

Nice try though.

So I still don't have any English blood in me, though I do have plenty of Protestant relatives.

So the point was(granted not put acrossthat well) is that I don't have some vested interest in siding with the "Irish diaspora" as was levelled at me.

Plenty of great people on here to illustrate the fact that the English are in fact a decent mob.

So excuse me if I just can't take to the blinkered bigots.

Haha! Of course it's Newcastle, Australia. That's exactly what you meant.

Chinny reckon.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

It IS sound advice. And if you're not as narrow-minded as you claim perhaps you can see the error of your ways. It wasn't an anti-war protest and it wasn't oppressed members of the working class making a statement.

Perhaps I should have prefaced my oroginal post with "it's a bloody silly thing to do".

It's an offensive action to many and I can understand that.

As for the error in my ways I don't see it that way sorry. Taking the time to see it form both sides is never an error in judgement.

Had 90% of the people in this thread taken the line of supporting the Celtic fans without a doubt I'd have taken the other side.

It's just playing devil's advocate to get a more balanced debate.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Haha! Of course it's Newcastle, Australia. That's exactly what you meant.

Chinny reckon.

Given you're good at finding old posts, you should be able to find a few of mine where i've joined in the "Northern English are Twats" type banter whenever one of that kind have visited NSC to give us a ribbing.

Which I'm hardly likley do if I'm one myself

 

[Pot noodles for everyone]

I'm all finished here, TB. My work is done. You carry on if you want but you might need a bigger shovel if you're going to carry on digging such big holes for yourself.

 

[Brovion]

I'm all finished here, TB. My work is done. You carry on if you want but you might need a bigger shovel if you're going to carry on digging such big holes for yourself.

Yup, count me in with that. He was apparently playing Devil's Advocate to get a balanced debate. Ah well .....