Serious question for the Palace fans on here.

[shaun_rc]

A thread with a reasonable discussion!

The Palace turn out last night was disappointing, but I think we need to stop being arrogant about attendances, after years when we didn't always sell out Withdean after the first 2 - 3 years (and I was a season ticket holder throughout). People just got tired of getting wet in a ground with no atmosphere.

Palace have been in the Championship for years, and we need to wait 5 years or to see how everything stabilises. At the moment there are loads of people who are hearing about the atmosphere at the Amex and want to go, and not all the Albion fans I know who live further away have even been once yet. If Palace moved to a shiny new stadium, I'm sure they too would have a bounce in attendance the first few years. I can't believe some parts of Selhurst are actually safe, its so run down and must put some people off.

There is another thing to consider... after the experience admittedly of the horrible 5-0, my girlfriend said she'd be happy to go to football again, but not to that fixture, because the atmosphere (especially the way back to Norwood Junction) was so threatening (from both sets of fans). Not everyone is going to want to go to the match likely to have the "afters" after the game.

I too have more respect for Palace fans than armchair Liverpool / Man Utd / Chelsea / Arsenal, but long live the rivalry...!

 

[Horses Arse]

Well considering we got 25-26K in the prem, i think your very wrong, i would fully expect our attendances (Like yours) to rocket IF we Built a New Stadium, Or a redeveloped Selhurst for that matter. We have a large fan Base, and true Brighton fans know it, Just Because they dont show doesnt men there not "Bothered" either.

Premiership is an entirely different argument - I was talking about the here and now. When you were in the premiership there were many fans there with no interest in palace at all, just a chance to see opposing premiership teams. Bit like fulham.

Interesting also that they were willing to go to Selhurst to watch premiership football in a toilet - no need then for a new stadium if you were to go up at some point.

Your fan base is affected by the other teams nearby - no shame in it. Brighton are just better positioned geographically. Sorry, it's just a fact rather than points scoring. Whilst there are many twats supposedly following London teams in Brighton it is far easier to see Brighton that go to town - you haven't got that advantage (and you're all pikey scum if course!)

 

[CPFC1234]

Premiership is an entirely different argument - I was talking about the here and now. When you were in the premiership there were many fans there with no interest in palace at all, just a chance to see opposing premiership teams. Bit like fulham.

Interesting also that they were willing to go to Selhurst to watch premiership football in a toilet - no need then for a new stadium if you were to go up at some point.

Your fan base is affected by the other teams nearby - no shame in it. Brighton are just better positioned geographically. Sorry, it's just a fact rather than points scoring. Whilst there are many twats supposedly following London teams in Brighton it is far easier to see Brighton that go to town - you haven't got that advantage (and you're all pikey scum if course!)

Your wrong, its in fact the very high Ticket prices, most of us just simply cant afford it, no shame in that.

 

[Kent Seagull]

A thread with a reasonable discussion!

It's much better, like NSC used to be! I appreciate the honesty of the Palace fans on here, much prefer to get a better understanding of other clubs, the banter about attendances etc is bollocks and does my head in. In reallity Brighton and Palace are still both local clubs for local people. Over the years we've been fairly well matched in terms of stadium (until Archer spoilt things) and success. The crap we've been through has come and gone so in that sense we're ahead of Palace at the moment but I'm sure at some point they'll have a decent ground and that the rivalry between two fairly similar clubs will flourish!

 

[Crenol]

You see, much as we're rivals etc I have so much more respect for someone like you, especially at your age. Once all the banter etc is done, I actually have about 10 or so mates who are Palace and I have more respect for them for supporting their local team (where they were brought up or family connections etc) than any glory supporter or armchair fan. Good post.

Thanks for that, I feel the same way. Actually only have one Brighton mate but was discussing the game with him at school today as he went last night as well and you just get the people overhearing who butt in saying how both teams are sh*t without knowing anything about us. The reply I use every time now is "How many games a season do you go to then?" and it usually shuts them up. As much as I dislike Brighton as a club and Brighton fans because of the rivalry, at least we are both true sets of fans.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

I'm 17 and was there last night as well as down at the AMEX. I said yesterday that it was the second biggest game of our season behind the away game against you but many people, especially people in my age group saw the cup semi final as a much bigger game so if they only go to a few games a year would choose that. I think the main thing is though that Championship football is the norm for us and doesn't have the excitement that is needed to attract higher attendances. If we got promoted then attendances would rise; if we got a nice shiny new stadium then they would rise slightly but not as much as if we got promoted. It's all so easy for kids in London though to decide to take the easy option and support any of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Fulham, QPR, West Ham or be even worse and become a sofa supporter of Man U, City or Liverpool. Football on tv actually hurts our fan base I think as people prefer to "support" a club that wins from home rather than going to support the local team.

Respect, kid. If a 17-year-old can understand the scale of this game, and choose to support his local side (yes, even if that side is Palace) ahead of sitting on his arse 'supporting' Chelsea or Man Utd from home, then there's hope for the future yet.

 

[Bill Cassidy's tie up]

I'm 17 and was there last night as well as down at the AMEX. I said yesterday that it was the second biggest game of our season behind the away game against you but many people, especially people in my age group saw the cup semi final as a much bigger game so if they only go to a few games a year would choose that. I think the main thing is though that Championship football is the norm for us and doesn't have the excitement that is needed to attract higher attendances. If we got promoted then attendances would rise; if we got a nice shiny new stadium then they would rise slightly but not as much as if we got promoted. It's all so easy for kids in London though to decide to take the easy option and support any of Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Fulham, QPR, West Ham or be even worse and become a sofa supporter of Man U, City or Liverpool. Football on tv actually hurts our fan base I think as people prefer to "support" a club that wins from home rather than going to support the local team.

Great post. As you say it's easy for young lads to support the bigger teams as you are so much closer to them or the tv sides. I respect you for supporting your local side. Have a word with CPFC1234 will you. It's easy to be sensible.

 

[Red'n'Blue]

Adults £24 behind the goal, £28 top tier of the West, £30 East and most of rest of West lower, £35 for central West Stand lower. These are the Newcastle prices - but I think are fairly standard.

So we charge about the same as you do.

 

[Sheebo]

Thanks for that, I feel the same way. Actually only have one Brighton mate but was discussing the game with him at school today as he went last night as well and you just get the people overhearing who butt in saying how both teams are sh*t without knowing anything about us. The reply I use every time now is "How many games a season do you go to then?" and it usually shuts them up. As much as I dislike Brighton as a club and Brighton fans because of the rivalry, at least we are both true sets of fans.

Reminds me of my school and 6th form days when i'd be going to Stockport or Wigan (usually on the piss) while the others would watch MOTD and cheer on Man U from their sofa!

 

[SeagullinExile]

Blimey..the Albion, Palace exchanges on this thread are strangely courteous barely 24 hrs after the big match! Although, i haven't read page 2 yet!

Seriously though, i was wondering this myself when Palace played Millwall a couple of months ago, i couldn't believe there was only 15,000 or so there. I have a few Millwall mates, so i know they had less tickets than us, but do you think the club themselves aren't helping when they reduce the allocation for away fans? I mean, we could of sold another 1-2 thousand last night given the chance, and it's big matches like that, with an electric atmosphere that get people coming back for more imo.

I guess what i'm saying is....

Sell out = atmosphere = bums on seats for future games

Then again thats just my opinion....and i often talk bollocks! Nice to get some honest insight from some Palace fans though

 

[Horses Arse]

Your wrong, its in fact the very high Ticket prices, most of us just simply cant afford it, no shame in that.

Are they really that high? What's the range?

On a separate track i was talking to a Leeds supporting neighbour who said the away ticket prices (worst in the ground) were £36 with home tickets more expensive - how the f*** do they attract over 20k ( their break even figure!!!!)

 

[SeagullSongs]

Thanks for that, I feel the same way. Actually only have one Brighton mate but was discussing the game with him at school today as he went last night as well and you just get the people overhearing who butt in saying how both teams are sh*t without knowing anything about us. The reply I use every time now is "How many games a season do you go to then?" and it usually shuts them up. As much as I dislike Brighton as a club and Brighton fans because of the rivalry, at least we are both true sets of fans.

Very much this.
There's 3 Brighton fans in our sixth form, and one Palace fan, and I'm much more comfortable talking to him about football than the arrogant Premier League plastics (especially Liverpool fans who've never even been North of London!)...

 

[Red'n'Blue]

i find this unbelievable coming from a palace fan, considering how much stick we've received from you lot for exactly the same thing (and selhurst is clearly better than withdean was)

Its called banter

 

[Red'n'Blue]

Plus the club/Police make it very hard for Palace fans to get tickets for the "Big" games by putting silly rules in place.

 

[Miami Seagull]

IMO one of the key reasons why the rivalry developed and sustained (even through our lack of games against each other) is that the clubs are similar in potential, both on and off the pitch. Now that we have the AMEX I believe we will continue to improve, especially with the funds that will come from the stadium expansion and academy facility. I can't see Palace doing anything other than treading water (at best) in the meantime. So for a while I think we will pull away from them in many respects. However, if they get their stadium and design one that is as atmospheric and as high quality as ours, their attendances will then match ours and they'll have similar potential. They're main hope in the meantime is that they can continue to develop young talent such as Clyne and Zaha. If that dries up they could be in big trouble again. They do also seem to have real fans as owners but it remains to be seen whether they are willing to financially back the club with their own money if and when the need arises.

 

[Red'n'Blue]

IMO one of the key reasons why the rivalry developed and sustained (even through our lack of games against each other) is that the clubs are similar in potential, both on and off the pitch. Now that we have the AMEX I believe we will continue to improve, especially with the funds that will come from the stadium expansion and academy facility. I can't see Palace doing anything other than treading water (at best) in the meantime. So for a while I think we will pull away from them in many respects. However, if they get their stadium and design one that is as atmospheric and as high quality as ours, their attendances will then match ours and they'll have similar potential. They're main hope in the meantime is that they can continue to develop young talent such as Clyne and Zaha. If that dries up they could be in big trouble again. They do also seem to have real fans as owners but it remains to be seen whether they are willing to financially back the club with their own money if and when the need arises.

Spot on. Cant see building a new stadium though.

 

[philmyglass]

It's a shame so few turned up last night and that you can't sell out for your derby matches against the likes of us and Millwall. I well remember games back in the 70s and early 80s when you easily filled Selhurst against us, so why do you think your fans are staying away in large numbers and if you do get a nice new shiny 30,000 stadium do you think the missing fans would come back?

We filled the ground against West Ham and all home ends against Millwall were full. Last night was disapointing, but given the fact Its just after Christmas, we have had recent trips to Blackpool and Cardiff and chuck in the families that do not attend because of hostilities between our fans and finally that our ground is a shit hole with poor facilities on a freezing night. The club also made it difficult for fans to buy tickets aswell as you had to have a history of purchase be a member or season ticket holder. Lets face it at the beginning of the season your ground was at full capacity with 75% season ticket holders but you are not filling it now unless its a big game. Us Palace fans travel in large numbers away and there are not many in the championship that are supported in such numbers with the exception of say W.Ham, Leeds maybe Birmingham.

 

[Horses Arse]

We filled the ground against West Ham and all home ends against Millwall were full. Last night was disapointing, but given the fact Its just after Christmas, we have had recent trips to Blackpool and Cardiff and chuck in the families that do not attend because of hostilities between our fans and finally that our ground is a shit hole with poor facilities on a freezing night. The club also made it difficult for fans to buy tickets aswell as you had to have a history of purchase be a member or season ticket holder. Lets face it at the beginning of the season your ground was at full capacity with 75% season ticket holders but you are not filling it now unless its a big game. Us Palace fans travel in large numbers away and there are not many in the championship that are supported in such numbers with the exception of say W.Ham, Leeds maybe Birmingham.

Meanwhile, back in the real world there were sod all there against Millwall and west ham thought they were at a home game.

 

[Eggmundo]

I work with a Palace fan , proper die hard fan, Eagle tattoos everywhere and we have a dig (especially after the 1-3), but we have mutual respect. As he says, It's all about ups and downs, proper nervous moments. Issues that fans of the big clubs don't and probably never will experience. Relegations, promotions, players/managers being poached, rebuilding and trying to move forwards.
He gets to as many games as he can but for him the 2 main factors are price and travel. Same as everyone but he did say it was ridiculous more tickets couldn't have been sold last night.

On the subject of filling a new Stadium, I sit next to 2 old guys at the AMEX who although regulars at the Goldstone, changed to watch Charlton, the fact that there is a nice, covered Stadium has enticed them 'back'. I don't think Crystal Palace have that sort of catchment available if they built a nice new Stadium. OK it's not great but you don't get wet when it rains, it sells beer and has a decent capacity. Something that was lacking over the Withdean years and put a lot (My Father-in-law for one) of people off.
So we seem to have taken on a decent older contigent but need to put more emphasis on the youngsters.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

Lets face it at the beginning of the season your ground was at full capacity with 75% season ticket holders but you are not filling it now unless its a big game.

Got to correct that one - we're running at the highest percentage of the stadium filled in the division, and the only empty seats each game are those not filled by season ticket holders who haven't come, or in the away end. A few hundred each game.

We are filling it, but you never get absolutely every seat full in any ground - our attendance against Palace, the highest league gate of the season, was given as 20,969. How many empty seats did you see that night? Whether it will be sustained over a long period remains to be seen, but with a waiting list 2,000 long for season tickets, even if there's a drop-off after the first season, it'll quickly be taken up. The club are not going to put 8,000 extra seats in if they think there's no chance of filling them.

Edit: Source of the stat, to back up what I'm saying. http://itv.stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/D1/attend.html