[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[GT49er]

No need for that kind of response. I’m asking where the funding comes from - is it a department like the Foreign Office, do we finance it somehow - or when we are told there’s no money for public funding it’s a bit of a lie?

Where did the money for the government scheme to pay part of the wages, and other emergencies, in Covid (and I'm not talking about the PPE fiascos)? Where will the money come from to compensate the postmasters and post mistresses? Sometimes circumstances arise where the money just has to be found, money that the government never expected or planned to fork out. Yes, maybe it increases the National Debt? And because there are murderous bastards out there in the world we can't always spend as much as we'd like on things we'd like to spend it on.

It has to be found - but that's different to splashing out cash we can't afford on planned expenditure in the same way. Does the government (or any government for that matter) get everything right? No - but sometimes needs must. Suppose we came under attack - 'No, we can't afford to fire off all our expensive missiles this week, so we'll just ask them to stop attacking us'? That wouldn't be acceptable, would it. There's times when money just has to be found, worry about it later.

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[Springal]

Where did the money for the government scheme to pay part of the wages, and other emergencies, in Covid (and I'm not talking about the PPE fiascos)? Where will the money come from to compensate the postmasters and post mistresses? Sometimes circumstances arise where the money just has to be found, money that the government never expected or planned to fork out. Yes, maybe it increases the National Debt? And because there are murderous bastards out there in the world we can't always spend as much as we'd like on things we'd like to spend it on.

It has to be found - but that's different to splashing out cash we can't afford on planned expenditure in the same way. Does the government (or any government for that matter) get everything right? No - but sometimes needs must. Suppose we came under attack - 'No, we can't afford to fire off all our expensive missiles this week, so we'll just ask them to stop attacking us'? That wouldn't be acceptable, would it. There's times when money just has to be found, worry about it later.

​

Fair enough, I’m not sure I entirely agree that having record levels of starving kids in your country can’t be fixed but keep funding wars (especially now with Yemen) miraculously can. But always been the way I guess

 

[Scappa]

If* that interview above is genuine, the bloke is significantly braver than the cohort of able-bodied male Russians who scarpered when rumours there'd be a draft gained pace and have been conspicuous by their silence since - which would suggest the prevailing attitude in Russia is not so much anti Putin's war, rather anti being roped into fighting Putin's war.

One would imagine significant anti-war sentiment among those in exile might lead to forming groups of vocal/militant dissenters which, apart from a small foray towards Belgorod, just hasn't materialised.

(*big if)

 

[abc]

Fair enough, I’m not sure I entirely agree that having record levels of starving kids in your country can’t be fixed but keep funding wars (especially now with Yemen) miraculously can. But always been the way I guess

Go to Yemen, most African and many Asian countries and you will see ‘record levels of starving kids’, we have no idea what true hardship is in the Uk. But if the affluent countries like the UK turn a blind eye to the likes of Putin, Iran etc, we will eventually find out.

 

[Albion in the north]

Youve all been really amazing on here and I cant thank you enough for your generosity.
One last ask!
I know powerbanks are something they desperately need. Ive already donated 22, my Christmas presents from my family this year, but am looking to take another 50 so that they can all have one.
If anyone is able to donate at all it would be hugely appreciated by them.

Check out my list on Amazon

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Albion in the north]

No need for that kind of response. I’m asking where the funding comes from - is it a department like the Foreign Office, do we finance it somehow - or when we are told there’s no money for public funding it’s a bit of a lie?

I tend not to get involved with anything political on this thread as I obviously have an emotional interest in the situation. There are a number of points to do with the funding that you may not realise. Rishi isnt just turning up with a cheque for £2.5Bn (I know you realise that bit). A lot of that will be the outdated stock that we are storing in a field somewhere. That will cut the cost of storing it or disposing of it. Some more of the £2.5Bn will be with parts and service from UK companies. From munitions to health and safety supplies. to electrical generation to expertise. Thereby keeping jobs, paying tax back in to the system etc. At the end of the war, there will be massive contracts for rebuilding infrastructure and the like and we will be near the head of the queue for those contracts, again keeping people in jobs etc. Technology is massively advanced during warfare (look at the use of drones, but also health care etc) and we will also be able to tap into these advances. Its also cheaper to degrade a historical enemy of the west by sending someone elses soldiers to do it. So its more of an investment than merely giving Ukraine money.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Not sure how we’ve found another £2.5bn to gift to Ukraine but apparently no money for public services, NHS pay rises etc. How does this kind of thing work

Not sure if you're fishing, but I'll bite.

UK government has an overdraft facility with the bank of England. Its called "the national debt".

It's quite a big number and we all pay for it as interest via our taxes.

It is often spoken of as something expensive that we should try to reduce, so we can spend the interest payment on something else.

Governments will increase this debt to pay for exceptional items (eg Ukraine support, Covid support, etc). Regular costs, like NHS staffing need to be funded from regular income (taxes). So when junior doctors demand 35% pay increase the government call it unaffordable.

I've purposely tried to make this party-neutral as I believe all hues of parliament fundamentally work the same way.

Anyway, let's not derail this thread please ...

 

[Eric the meek]

Ukraine have shot down a Russian spy plane over the Sea of Azov:

Ukraine-Russia war live: Ukraine shoots down £275m Russian spy plane

Ukraine said it had downed a £274million Russian spy plane in a “perfectly planned and executed operation” over the Sea of Azov.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Dick Head]

Here's Konstantin, keeping us up to date on the big freeze.

 

[Eric the meek]

Here's Konstantin, keeping us up to date on the big freeze.

Good pre-match entertainment Dick Head. I hope the Bristol City v West Ham game lives up to it.

It's ironic that Putin tried to freeze Europe, blackmail Germany and destroy Ukraine's infrastructure, and then this happens, in Moscow in -27C.

 

[raymondo]

Here's Konstantin, keeping us up to date on the big freeze.

Nice to see it.

 

[Eric the meek]

Nice to see it.

Konstantin is always worth listening to, and perhaps this is one of his most important videos.

I appreciate the supporting clips of flooded streets, burst pipes, people complaining 'we are freezing', you name it.

He said his next vids would be on published on 20th and 27th January.

 

[raymondo]

Konstantin is always worth listening to, and perhaps this is one of his most important videos.

I appreciate the supporting clips of flooded streets, burst pipes, people complaining 'we are freezing', you name it.

He said his next vids would be on published on 20th and 27th January.

It's good that the war is coming home to roost for Russia during this winter: lack of investment, lack of workers/ engineers, effects of sanctions, overstretched as they divert resources to rebuild Mariupol etc

 

[Eric the meek]

It's good that the war is coming home to roost for Russia during this winter: lack of investment, lack of workers/ engineers, effects of sanctions, overstretched as they divert resources to rebuild Mariupol etc

The west needs to find a way to communicate to the Russian masses, the lunacy of an illegal war that destroys Mariupol, and then uses the city budget of St. Petersburg to rebuild Mariupol, which Russia has just destroyed.

Meanwhile the citizens of St. Petersburg are without water, heating and electricity etc, which don't get fixed because there's no money left.

If true, this is beyond almost anything I've heard in this war so far.

 

[A1X]

Wasn’t Putin supposed to be dead and that announced by now? Sure I saw someone post that video on here a few months back

 

[raymondo]

The west needs to find a way to communicate to the Russian masses, the lunacy of an illegal war that destroys Mariupol, and then uses the city budget of St. Petersburg to rebuild Mariupol, which Russia has just destroyed.

Meanwhile the citizens of St. Petersburg are without water, heating and electricity etc, which don't get fixed because there's no money left.

If true, this is beyond almost anything I've heard in this war so far.

Yes, that use of the St Petersburg budget, or part of...if true, was a new one for me too.
And here's hoping this Russian winter is very long and very cold.

 

[raymondo]

Wasn’t Putin supposed to be dead and that announced by now? Sure I saw someone post that video on here a few months back

That was rumoured, but seems fake news. There's also the whereabouts of Gerasimov?, who I believe still hasn't been seen since the missiles hit a command post in Crimea. Lots of fog.

 

[GT49er]

The west needs to find a way to communicate to the Russian masses, the lunacy of an illegal war that destroys Mariupol, and then uses the city budget of St. Petersburg to rebuild Mariupol, which Russia has just destroyed.

Meanwhile the citizens of St. Petersburg are without water, heating and electricity etc, which don't get fixed because there's no money left.

If true, this is beyond almost anything I've heard in this war so far.

Absolutely this. I suggested this within weeks, if not days, of the war starting. Without, it must be said, attracting a great deal of enthusiasm! I understand large numbers of Russians wouldn't believe it - or would just refuse to believe - and I understand those who thought their IT propaganda boys were better than ours - but I still think we should have a specialist team somewhere tasked to do just that.

Maybe we have. So maybe we need a better specialist team..............

 

[Binney on acid]

Time is not on our side. We are facing the prospect of a second Trump term, and complete strangulation of American support. Orban having the ability to stifle EU contributions, and Lukashenko, another puppet, who's strings are being controlled by Russia's great Tsar. I fear for Ukraine. Pot holes appear to be more newsworthy now than Putin imposed genocide. Who in their right mind is going to demonstrate in Red Square. Would you ? Not if you want to see your family again.........

 

[raymondo]

Time is not on our side. We are facing the prospect of a second Trump term, and complete strangulation of American support. Orban having the ability to stifle EU contributions, and Lukashenko, another puppet, who's strings are being controlled by Russia's great Tsar. I fear for Ukraine. Pot holes appear to be more newsworthy now than Putin imposed genocide. Who in their right mind is going to demonstrate in Red Square. Would you ? Not if you want to see your family again.........

I'm not very well versed in European politics but there's something I really don't get about the Orban road block on EU aid to Ukraine:
- bilateral aid (individual countries direct to Ukraine)is unaffected by Orban, so...
- why not simply redistribute the EU pot to individual countries and let them bilaterally give their share to Ukraine?.
- Hungary will use their share on sabotaging their legal system and propaganda but who gives an f. Bypass them NOW.
- what am I missing?