[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[vegster]

Can't believe that Ukraine will agree to a ceasefire. Its patently obvious that the Russians are struggling and are running out of ideas and troops. Putin will happily agree to any kind of ceasefire in which he keeps some or all of the invaded territories. he will bare faced lie to the Russian public that this would be the victory required to " De Nazify " Ukraine and that Russia is graciously winning despite the huge losses in men and machinery.

But, Putin isn't finished, he will re-arm and will engineer an excuse to either attack Ukraine again or Transnistria. He will look for a weakness somewhere in eastern Europe that he can use to divide and weaken the west and NATO. He's not going away, he's won the election in 2024 and he has the mandate to waste any amount of Russian lives and equipment as he sees fit. He has to be stopped now.

 

[Sirnormangall]

I don’t think Ukraine will accept peace talks at this time, but Zelensky seems increasingly under pressure due to waning western support and internal friction which, if true, will harden Putin’s resolve - unless the pressures on Putin are greater. Sanctions, falling gas and oil revenues, need for more armaments will surely be having a massive affect on the Russian economy and standard of living. Russia’s “friends” in Iran and N Korea will presumably be extracting a high price for their support. Internal unrest at the growing death toll will increasingly be difficult to suppress. None of us know to what extent any of that is having an impact but it’s not hard to imagine Putin seeking a face saving compromise through the back door.

 

[Eric the meek]

Day 676 of Putin's 3 day special military operation, and Ukraine is taking the war to Russia:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-67838996

Dashcam footage in Belgorod:

 

[Nobby]

Interesting twist today. Ukraine hitting back after the dreadful bombardment yesterday
Keep going
- not sure how this escalation will end, but maybe Ukraine trying to force the West into greater support by stirring the Russians into even more heinous acts.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Whilst it’s sad to see more innocent civilians impacted by this war, hopefully it will generate more internal dissatisfaction with Putin’s regime. Ukraine needs to keep taking the war to Russia- individually these actions don’t amount to much but collectively they are symbolic and send a strong message to both sides

 

[A1X]

Anyone else a little uncomfortable with this development?

 

[raymondo]

Whilst it’s sad to see more innocent civilians impacted by this war, hopefully it will generate more internal dissatisfaction with Putin’s regime. Ukraine needs to keep taking the war to Russia- individually these actions don’t amount to much but collectively they are symbolic and send a strong message to both sides

I agree totally. Russians (even the small percentage that is Belgorod) need to feel what's it like to be regularly attacked ...to feel at least some of the fear and tragedy felt by Ukrainians.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Anyone else a little uncomfortable with this development?

Yes, though I don’t think it’s the first time Belgorod has been targeted. This “outrageous” attack by Ukraine has apparently triggered a Russian request for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council — on what basis I wonder?

 

[Eric the meek]

Anyone else a little uncomfortable with this development?

I understand your feelings. I was going to post something similar.

But Ukraine has to take the war to Russia. The alternative is to carry on suffering strikes with Russia not suffering the consequences of its brutality.

 

[Beach Hut]

This “outrageous” attack by Ukraine has apparently triggered a Russian request for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council — on what basis I wonder?

I would imagine something along the lines of we started this war, they should have rolled over, they haven't and are now attacking us - this isn't fair........

 

[raymondo]

The source is the New York Times. There are now multiple other sources, but they may have just got the news from the NYT.

I didn't post the link to the article, as you need a subscription, and I didn't want to get into any trouble with Bozza and the mods.

I agree it would be a mistake for Ukraine to agree to a ceasefire. The very fact that Putin has asked for a ceasefire in private (while continuing his bravado in public), is all the more reason not to agree to it. We don't want to facilitate his duplicity, and surely want the Russian people to wake up, rather than enable Putin to save his skin by continuing to mislead them. Also the fact that he has approached the Americans instead of Ukraine, shows he is still making miscalculations. Offering a ceasefire, while illuminating, was itself a miscalculation.

I've now read the NYT article, thanks for the link . It was also interesting to read a number of the comments to the article.

 

[sparkie]

Anyone else a little uncomfortable with this development?

I'm more uncomfortable that the Russian invaders haven't pointed their vehicles east and just driven back into Russia, ending the war.

 

[Eric the meek]

I would imagine something along the lines of we started this war, they should have rolled over, they haven't and are now attacking us - this isn't fair........

I'm wondering if this is another miscalculation by Russia. The UN are obviously going to point out the double standards by Russia, and will surely slaughter them?

Or does Russia anticipate this, and is planning to present a message along the lines of 'the UN is fixed' to the Russian masses?

 

[Zeberdi]

But Ukraine has to take the war to Russia. The alternative is to carry on suffering strikes with Russia not suffering the consequences of its brutality.

They won't get far with this latest shopping list but at least it helps them defend themselves - US policy on providing defensive only arms to Ukraine doesn’t bode well for ending the current stalemate though. Neither Russia or Ukraine is looking like making a breakthrough in regaining or conceding significant amounts of Ukrainian territory any time soon and neither seeming willing to negotiate an end to the war. Russia will keep attacking, Ukraine will need to keep defending and keep fighting just to hold the frontline and the US will need to keep providing the means to do so. Meanwhile, while Ukraine is stripped bare of dignity and natural resources, defence contractors, and arms manufacturers are laughing all the way to the banks, who are themselves laughing as this ‘frozen conflict becomes a lucrative channel of revenue for investment bankers, insurance companies and asset managers who are financing the arms industry :

Biden Administration Announces New Security Assistance for Ukraine

DOD announced additional security assistance to meet Ukraine's critical security and defense needs.

www.defense.gov

 

[brighton_dave]

Anyone else a little uncomfortable with this development?

Not in the slightest tbh. Russians have slaughtered innocent Ukrainians and I'm pleased to see retaliation in their own backyard and would not be phased by a good few explosions in Moscow itself. Without any deterrent Russia will continously look to flex what muscle it has left. Their threats are toothless & if anything bigger did materalise so be it. Never again can a country think invading another will go unpunished.
Standing up to the bully is the only way...

 

[essbee1]

Not in the slightest tbh. Russians have slaughtered innocent Ukrainians and I'm pleased to see retaliation in their own backyard and would not be phased by a good few explosions in Moscow itself. Without any deterrent Russia will continously look to flex what muscle it has left. Their threats are toothless & if anything bigger did materalise so be it. Never again can a country think invading another will go unpunished.
Standing up to the bully is the only way...

This 100%. You start it Putin you ****, we'll end it.

 

[Nobby]

Anyone else a little uncomfortable with this development?

I’m not really sure what makes you uncomfortable
Is it that escalation could get worse?
A few innocent Russians dying? After what the Russians have done over the last two years?
Mass graves, rape, torture, child abduction, environmental catastrophe..
If the current situation makes you uncomfortable, then so be it. Things can’t get much worse for ordinary Ukrainians or their soldiers fighting on the front lines.
The West is wavering - that’s what makes me uncomfortable. The West should let the Ukrainians fight like for like, not with one hand tied behind their backs.
History tells us that Russian aggression should not be allowed to succeed.
That would be very uncomfortable indeed.

 

[Nobby]

Anyone else a little uncomfortable with

 

[raymondo]

I'm wondering if this is another miscalculation by Russia. The UN are obviously going to point out the double standards by Russia, and will surely slaughter them?

Or does Russia anticipate this, and is planning to present a message along the lines of 'the UN is fixed' to the Russian masses?

Yes, it'll be the latter

 

[vegster]

I’m not really sure what makes you uncomfortable
Is it that escalation could get worse?
A few innocent Russians dying? After what the Russians have done over the last two years?
Mass graves, rape, torture, child abduction, environmental catastrophe..
If the current situation makes you uncomfortable, then so be it. Things can’t get much worse for ordinary Ukrainians or their soldiers fighting on the front lines.
The West is wavering - that’s what makes me uncomfortable. The West should let the Ukrainians fight like for like, not with one hand tied behind their backs.
History tells us that Russian aggression should not be allowed to succeed.
That would be very uncomfortable indeed.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as " Innocent Russians ". Most of the country firmly backs Putin and there have been little or no protests at the slaughter of Ukrainians or indeed the slaughter of their own conscripts and troops. By attacking Belogorad the Ukrainians are waking up the locals to the realities of war...hopefully they will start asking more questions of Putin as to why this is happening and why cant he defend Russia ?