[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[peterward]

Multiple twitter feeds confirming that there is severe civil unrest, Putin has vowed to crush the insurrection. Difficult to know how many " Decent " well equipped and trained soldiers will remain loyal to him though. Lots of conscripts,regular troops and Wagner fighters have been treated like meat at the front are very pissed off.

Interesting times.

Edit: BBC now reporting on this.

 

[peterward]

 

[Triggaaar]

come on Trig, I know it’s late, but you can order the strikes, wait for them to be in the air, and…….

Yes of course, I wasn't suggesting he had to have the gun against his head while making the order, simply that people would be able to see he's lost power, so it's not clear they'd want to destroy the world.

I agree that it is a concern, but jcdenton isn't sure if the latest developments are good news. If you want Russia to lose, then they are good news. Russia losing, does carry it's own risks, but Russia winning carries more.

 

[fly high]

So he's saying they have wiped out the whole Wagner army in a day. Don't believe that.

 

[Ethelwulf]

This could be the beginning of the end for putin .

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

 

[raymondo]

Page down to the Putin photo...

 

[TomandJerry]

In the last few minutes we have had an intelligence update from the UK's Ministry of Defence.

It says some Wagner units "are moving north through Vorenezh Oblast, almost certainly aiming to get to Moscow".

Vorenezh lies halfway between the capital Moscow and Rostov-on-Don, the Russian city that the Wagner mercenary group claims it now controls. The UK MoD says Wagner has "almost certainly" occupied key sites in Rostov-on-Don.

 

[sparkie]

 

[Triggaaar]

My mind is blown by these most recent updates. Do we have enough information yet to know if this is genuine, or could it be a carefully choreographed media operation, to try and wrong foot Ukraine’s troops into making an unwise attack?

As before, Ukraine will act on what they see on the ground, not based on social media.

 

[sparkie]

PMC Wagner also moving towards Volgograd ( Stalingrad ).

 

[sparkie]

 

[Triggaaar]

Would we rather deal with a pragmatic Prigorzhin than a paranoid Putin? If anything my concern is that Prigorzhin seems more capable than Putin. Would love an immediate Russian collapse in Ukraine, but what would it bode for the longer term?

If Russia lose in the short term, then Ukraine can join Nato and there's a lot less concern longer term. If Russia had another evil dictator, that's not necessarily a huge issue for other countries, as Russia won't have the ability to fight them.

 

[Triggaaar]

I wonder how Putin is feeling right now about his decision to invade Ukraine.

 

[chickens]

If Russia lose in the short term, then Ukraine can join Nato and there's a lot less concern longer term. If Russia had another evil dictator, that's not necessarily a huge issue for other countries, as Russia won't have the ability to fight them.

I know that to an extent “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” and I think Prigozhin is pragmatic enough to make concessions for peace, as he’ll have enough to deal with internally in the short term. But there are no guarantees.

My background anxiety is that instead he persists with the conflict, and there’s a renewed focus from Russia’s troops brought from suddenly having a leadership that isn’t so poorly informed and detached from the reality of the conflict.

 

[sparkie]

Tonight would be the perfect time for US/NATO/Ukrainian Special Forces to capture the Nuclear Power Plant.

 

[Mancgull]

Hopefully the Russian army won’t capitulate immediately to the Wagner group and they can fight each other, in Russia, for the next few months, allowing Ukraine to drive out the Russian army from their country.

 

[SweatyMexican]

What is it you all want to happen? Russia invaded Ukraine, and Ukraine have fought back and are trying to kick Russia out. There are two possible outcomes:
1) Russia wins
2) Russia loses

Do you want them to win? If not, then they lose, and that obviously carries the risks you're discussing.

If Putin is ready to shoot himself, will the required people be firing nukes for him?

The issue is this situation is not black and white. There’s a thousand different outcomes to this, and a couple of them really aren’t particularly good.

We obviously want Ukraine to succeed, but fate really has to take the right path on this. Hopefully with Putin gone from power, and tensions to ease off with no nuclear involvement.

 

[Algernon]

If Russia lose in the short term, then Ukraine can join Nato and there's a lot less concern longer term. If Russia had another evil dictator, that's not necessarily a huge issue for other countries, as Russia won't have the ability to fight them.

 

[Triggaaar]

View attachment 162665

Not sure what your point is?