[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[The Clamp]

As people have already said. NATO is a defensive alliance, not an aggressor. If Russia built up troops on NATO borders, you can bet your house on them responding in kind, but Russia didn’t, so no build up was necessary.

The build up of troops can be defensive. My point being, when nations call his bluff or show force, he bottles it. When we let him probe weakness, he attacks.

A show of solidarity and force would have likely forced Putin to back down. It should have been done as far back as 2014. But that’s my opinion. I’m hoping we don’t get the chance to test the theory ever again.

 

[A1X]

No as I said earlier, only NATO countries. There are 5 that border Russia.

There’s already a large NATO presence along those borders, and has been for years.

 

[The Clamp]

There’s already a large NATO presence along those borders, and has been for years.

I mean a build up of troops on a war footing. Carrying out exercises and reinforcing existing troops. I heard an ex high-ranking army fella on the radio explaining why he thinks this would have worked. I wish I could remember his name.
But yep, I totally see that it’s a risky strategy. I happen to agree that it would have worked but I’m no expert.

 

[SeagullinExile]

The build up of troops can be defensive. My point being, when nations call his bluff or show force, he bottles it. When we let him probe weakness, he attacks.

A show of solidarity and force would have likely forced Putin to back down. It should have been done as far back as 2014. But that’s my opinion. I’m hoping we don’t get the chance to test the theory ever again.

It’s only defensive if Russia built up forces on those borders first though. A NATO build would be taken as an act of aggression by Russia.

 

[The Clamp]

It’s only defensive if Russia built up forces on those borders first though. A NATO build would be taken as an act of aggression by Russia.

They can take it how they like, it may have prevented war. Bullies don’t get the luxury of judging others. Besides, He wouldn’t go up against NATO. He can barley keep in the fight against Ukraine. That’s why he chose Ukraine to bully, they aren’t members yet.

Russia views someone criticising them as an act of aggression, nobody should give a hoot what they think.

Again though, I totally see your point.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

They can take it how they like, it may have prevented war. Bullies don’t get the luxury of judging others. Besides, He wouldn’t go up against NATO. He can barley keep in the fight against Ukraine. That’s why he chose Ukraine to bully, they aren’t members yet.

Russia views someone criticising them as an act of aggression, nobody should give a hoot what they think.

Again though, I totally see your point.

Russia thinks power is might, and has little regards for their own population lives. They are often spoiling for a fight so it takes little to set them off. Invading Ukraine was done under pretence of Russians under attack from ‘Nazis’.

My Dad was on convoys in WW2 both Atlantic and Arctic but said when the Allies got into Germany, they should have kept going instead of allowing the USSR to form.
Gorbachev was unusual with his openness.

 

[Igzilla]

FWIW, I have written to my MP, informing him that I think NATO should accept Ukraine's application and asked him tell HMG that. I don't know if it will do any good at all, but I'd rather do something, than nothing at all.

 

[SeagullinExile]

They can take it how they like, it may have prevented war. Bullies don’t get the luxury of judging others. Besides, He wouldn’t go up against NATO. He can barley keep in the fight against Ukraine. That’s why he chose Ukraine to bully, they aren’t members yet.

Russia views someone criticising them as an act of aggression, nobody should give a hoot what they think.

Again though, I totally see your point.

It wouldn’t of prevented war! NATOs borders were never threatened. What you’re suggesting would of made things worse as it would of made Nato the aggressor, playing into Putin’s hand.

 

[shingle]

FWIW, I have written to my MP, informing him that I think NATO should accept Ukraine's application and asked him tell HMG that. I don't know if it will do any good at all, but I'd rather do something, than nothing at all.

Have you ever seen the young ones episode where an indignant Rick says 'I'm going to write to the lead singer of echo and the bunnymen' ..... this is the same thing, absolutely pointless, though I do agree with the sentiment.

 

[Igzilla]

Have you ever seen the young ones episode where an indignant Rick says 'I'm going to write to the lead singer of echo and the bunnymen' ..... this is the same thing, absolutely pointless, though I do agree with the sentiment.

This made me smile and yes, absolutely pointless especially considering who my MP is.

 

[shingle]

The seed of this recent conflict (not the annexation of Crimea) begun a year ago with the west's chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, coupled with the perceivance of a weak doddery US president. We are in unchartered territory, and like many on here I am worried about the eventual outcome.

 

[GT49er]

Russia thinks power is might, and has little regards for their own population lives. They are often spoiling for a fight so it takes little to set them off. Invading Ukraine was done under pretence of Russians under attack from ‘Nazis’.

My Dad was on convoys in WW2 both Atlantic and Arctic but said when the Allies got into Germany, they should have kept going instead of allowing the USSR to form.
Gorbachev was unusual with his openness.

Gorbachev was a great man.

It is an underlying and incontrovertable truth that empires cannot live forever. The Mogul Empire, the Roman Empire and the Austro-Hungarian Empire all withered and died. The British recognised when it was time to free the British Empire, and Gorbachev recognised the same - and the USSR, along with the Eastern Bloc, was the Russian Empire in all but name. Putin is essentially a dinosaur - albeit a dangerous one - with no understanding of history, or of the reality that all empires are time-limited.

Remind me - and I wish someone could remind him! - how long did the Thousand Years Reich last?

 

[Sirnormangall]

The seed of this recent conflict (not the annexation of Crimea) begun a year ago with the west's chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, coupled with the perceivance of a weak doddery US president. We are in unchartered territory, and like many on here I am worried about the eventual outcome.

Yes, although Russia also invaded Donetz and Luhansk in 2014 when it annexed Crimea. In the past 8 years I think the west has just been turning a blind eye and hoping it wouldn’t happen. Can’t allow Putin to win this time - his next target will probably be Odessa and then push into Moldova ( non NATO) where he can invade on the pretence of protecting the Russian mob that he’s inserted into Transnystia.

 

[vegster]

Yes, although Russia also invaded Donetz and Luhansk in 2014 when it annexed Crimea. In the past 8 years I think the west has just been turning a blind eye and hoping it wouldn’t happen. Can’t allow Putin to win this time - his next target will probably be Odessa and then push into Moldova ( non NATO) where he can invade on the pretence of protecting the Russian mob that he’s inserted into Transnystia.

Or he will target Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia as he will feel that they can be rolled over easily...

 

[Weststander]

Or he will target Lithuania, Latvia and Lithuania as he will feel that they can be rolled over easily...

Estonia.

Have multinational NATO forces and hardware in situ. The fascist would be murdering westerners, Russia’s army, navy and airforce would be obliterated at will.

 

[vegster]

Estonia.

Have multinational NATO forces and hardware in situ. The fascist would be murdering westerners, Russia’s army, navy and airforce would be obliterated at will.

Yes, Estonia.. sorry, the Russia invades Ukraine thread is not compatible with the Friday Night Drinking thread.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Or he will target Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia as he will feel that they can be rolled over easily...

He needs an army with sufficient hardware of which he has bugger all. Ukraine is slow bringing Russia to her knees.


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[jakarta]

Having been to Latvia a few years back there was already a Clear US Presence, as in big black blokes walking the streets of Riga in their civvies who clearly were not Latvian plus lots of Yank Military planes at the airport.

Given their performence in the Ukraine I don't think Russia will get over the Borders of the (NATO) Baltic States as long Biden holds his nerve.

 

[Weststander]

Having been to Latvia a few years back there was already a Clear US Presence, as in big black blokes walking the streets of Riga in their civvies who clearly were not Latvian plus lots of Yank Military planes at the airport.

Given their performence in the Ukraine I don't think Russia will get over the Borders of the (NATO) Baltic States as long Biden holds his nerve.

Putin would also be murdering Danes, Belgians, French, Dutch, Czechs, Spanish and Italians.

 

[Triggaaar]

We acted but not in an effective way to halt the invasion.

The accusation was that we didn't act. And it probably wasn't possible to act in a way that would have stopped the invasion. We couldn't just attack Russia, and if NATO had amassed troops on borders, they'd be getting the blame for causing the war.