[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Triggaaar]

Asides from the obvious brutality. Isn't the Russians doing this the height of stupidity?

On seeing these reports, western governments will continue to come under huge pressure to supply arms and support to Ukraine. Governments such as China and India will find their positions harder to justify and the Ukranians have not one incentive to surrender. They may as well die trying to resist

Well yes the whole thing makes no sense to me, but I mean specifically murdering civilians. It gains them absolutely nothing.

Putin has ordered the shelling of civilian targets. That is his war crime. I don't know what he's asked the soldiers to do to individual civilians in occupied areas, but I suspect a lot of the sickening scenes we're seeing are the results of evil soldiers, with poor discipline, taking the frustration of their loss at Kyiv out on the civilians nearby, rather than an order from the top. So no, it doesn't help the overall Russian effort, but that's not at the forefront of the minds of the soldiers.

 

[Triggaaar]

A Lithuanian-Russian I know in the UK ( who has always loved Putin a little too much for my liking ) is now saying that anyone here who believes the stories coming out of Ukraine is "brainwashed".

We are the brainwashed ones !

Christ.

Among all the atrocities, somehow this is the bit that upsets me the most, because it paints such a sad picture for the future of humanity. Like the whole of China is unable to think for themselves.

 

[Insel affe]

A Lithuanian

Let me stop you right there, I already know he is brainwashed.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Putin has ordered the shelling of civilian targets. That is his war crime. I don't know what he's asked the soldiers to do to individual civilians in occupied areas, but I suspect a lot of the sickening scenes we're seeing are the results of evil soldiers, with poor discipline, taking the frustration of their loss at Kyiv out on the civilians nearby, rather than an order from the top. So no, it doesn't help the overall Russian effort, but that's not at the forefront of the minds of the soldiers.

I've heard 1st hand anecdotal evidence from someone trusted who served in the USSR army ( not the idiot who called us brainwashed ) as a conscript that soldiers were given dodgy chemicals to make them fight more aggressively.

Who knows what was injected into some of those in Ukraine.

 

[jakarta]

Having had mates in the Mob (Army /RAF) and also done work on quite a few military sites over the past 20 years I was always told that the Americans had all the Gear but no Idea while the Russians had no Gear but the right idea. It looks like they have run out of ideas...

 

[Pavilionaire]

A Lithuanian-Russian I know in the UK ( who has always loved Putin a little too much for my liking ) is now saying that anyone here who believes the stories coming out of Ukraine is "brainwashed".

We are the brainwashed ones !

Christ.


So I hold out very little hope for Russian society right now.

Except that I would expect the parents of dead soldiers to make enquiries into how their sons died, possibly asking fellow soldiers. There are also numerous accounts of Russian soldiers not obeying orders or deserting, and they will be telling friends and family what is happening on the ground. It may take time but I expect the people will begin to question what they are being told. The demonstrations in Moscow and St Petersburg right at the start of the war are an indicator many Russian people don't trust the Putin regime.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Except that I would expect the parents of dead soldiers to make enquiries into how their sons died, possibly asking fellow soldiers. There are also numerous accounts of Russian soldiers not obeying orders or deserting, and they will be telling friends and family what is happening on the ground. It may take time but I expect the people will begin to question what they are being told. The demonstrations in Moscow and St Petersburg right at the start of the war are an indicator many Russian people don't trust the Putin regime.

Well who knows. That is optimistic. I hope it's right.

It is touched on in the thread below - linked before - but not optimistically. I am still waiting for his 3rd scenario details ( hopefully the good outcome ) after the first 2 depressing outcomes he theorises.

[Tweet]1509968359483445256[/Tweet]

Specific tweet in the thread :

[Tweet]1509974202463494154[/Tweet]

 

[Theatre of Trees]

Except that I would expect the parents of dead soldiers to make enquiries into how their sons died, possibly asking fellow soldiers. There are also numerous accounts of Russian soldiers not obeying orders or deserting, and they will be telling friends and family what is happening on the ground. It may take time but I expect the people will begin to question what they are being told. The demonstrations in Moscow and St Petersburg right at the start of the war are an indicator many Russian people don't trust the Putin regime.

This is an interesting view, from a Russian who lives near Vladivostock in the Far East. Uploaded to youtube 9 days ago.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Watched the Russian ambassador to the UN lying though his teeth earlier. These people are sub human

 

[GT49er]

This is such a hard situation to make sense of, or to predict how it will end.

I cannot see how Putin can suppress the truth about the military blunders and human atrocities in Ukraine, particularly as there as so many people inter-married, Russians in Ukraine and Ukrainians in Russia. Then there are tens of thousands of grieving Russian parents who have lost sons in combat. You'd expect once sanctions really bite those people couldn't get any lower and so an uprising of the people could happen. There are also many in the Russian military who will fear the repercussions of a failed mission and they may think they have nothing to lose by supporting a coup. However, Putin has surrounded himself with layers of protection so appears almost untouchable.. I think the key will be getting access to someone in Putin's inner circle who may be prepared to turn against him.

We saw similar human atrocities in the Balkan wars 30 years ago, although the destruction of infrastructure in Ukraine is on a different level altogether.

Unfortunately the war criminal is doing just that extremely well, particularly in Russia where a vast majority of the population still think he's a good guy fighting fascism and liberating the victims of fascism in Ukraine.
We have heard credible cases, sadly, of Russian citizens telling their relatives in the Ukraine that they are lying, that what they are telling them of their first hand experiences just isn't true (though why on earth they think their relatives in Ukraine would want to make up stories like that is beyond me; Putin's fake news campaign must be bloody fantastically brilliant - that's the only reason I can think of).

 

[sydney]

Watched the Russian ambassador to the UN lying though his teeth earlier. These people are sub human

A lot of those in power , currently controlling the planet , are sub human .They only see power and wealth .

 

[dazzer6666]

[tweet]1511108357712719872[/tweet]

 

[Albion in the north]

I have meant to post many times on here about how the propoganda machine works in Russia and that many on here possibly dont understand.
However if you have twitter look for the latest thread by Alexey navalny [MENTION=14707]nava[/MENTION]lny about how the news of the massacre in Bucha was shown on Russian TV.
Ive no idea how to post a tweet but it is very enlightening.

 

[Eric the meek]

I have meant to post many times on here about how the propoganda machine works in Russia and that many on here possibly dont understand.
However if you have twitter look for the latest thread by Alexey navalny [MENTION=14707]nava[/MENTION]lny about how the news of the massacre in Bucha was shown on Russian TV.
Ive no idea how to post a tweet but it is very enlightening.

'Russia repeats debunked claims about Bucha footage'

Satellite image from Bucha contradicts Russian claims'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60991746 at 16:47 and 16:52

Steve Rosenberg, BBC Moscow correspondent told how the pictures of the bodies at Bucha were shown on Russian TV, but with the word 'Fake' across the screen.
It defies all logic, and somehow makes the atrocity even worse.

 

[Albion in the north]

https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1511368941758787592?s=20&t=9yQDcyQtOujeC2vOXujb9A

 

[Uter]

Anyone else following Oryx on twitter?

The amount of hardware being destroyed in this war is incredible. Russian assets are being taken out at a ratio of around 3.5:1 compared to Ukraine.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Russia - 2449, of which: destroyed: 1240, damaged: 38, abandoned: 237, captured: 934

Tanks (425, of which destroyed: 201, damaged: 6, abandoned: 42, captured: 176)
Armoured Fighting Vehicles (279, of which destroyed: 131, abandoned: 32, captured: 116)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (419, of which destroyed: 235, damaged: 2, abandoned: 31, captured: 150)
Armoured Personnel Carriers (87, of which destroyed: 24, damaged: 1, abandoned: 17, captured: 45)
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (79, of which destroyed: 45, damaged: 2, abandoned: 5, captured: 25)
Aircraft (20, of which destroyed: 19, damaged: 1)
Helicopters (32, of which destroyed: 28, damaged: 2, abandoned: 1, captured: 1)
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (702, of which destroyed: 416, damaged: 14, abandoned: 61, captured: 211)

Ukraine - 684, of which: destroyed: 303, damaged: 20, abandoned: 37, captured: 324

Tanks (93, of which destroyed: 36, damaged: 2, abandoned: 9, captured: 44)
Armoured Fighting Vehicles (64, of which destroyed: 26, abandoned: 4, captured: 35)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (76, of which destroyed: 34, damaged: 3, abandoned: 9, captured: 30)
Armoured Personnel Carriers (31, of which destroyed: 5, damaged: 1, abandoned: 2, captured: 22)
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (48, of which destroyed: 15, damaged: 1, abandoned: 1, captured: 31)
Aircraft (15, of which destroyed: 14, damaged: 1)
Helicopters (3, of which destroyed: 2, captured: 1)
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (205, of which destroyed: 78, damaged: 5, abandoned: 5, captured: 117)


These are just the losses for which there is visual evidence.

Russia seem to be losing 80-100 pieces a day.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Anyone else following Oryx on twitter?

The amount of hardware being destroyed in this war is incredible. Russian assets are being taken out at a ratio of around 3.5:1 compared to Ukraine.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Russia - 2449, of which: destroyed: 1240, damaged: 38, abandoned: 237, captured: 934

Tanks (425, of which destroyed: 201, damaged: 6, abandoned: 42, captured: 176)
Armoured Fighting Vehicles (279, of which destroyed: 131, abandoned: 32, captured: 116)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (419, of which destroyed: 235, damaged: 2, abandoned: 31, captured: 150)
Armoured Personnel Carriers (87, of which destroyed: 24, damaged: 1, abandoned: 17, captured: 45)
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (79, of which destroyed: 45, damaged: 2, abandoned: 5, captured: 25)
Aircraft (20, of which destroyed: 19, damaged: 1)
Helicopters (32, of which destroyed: 28, damaged: 2, abandoned: 1, captured: 1)
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (702, of which destroyed: 416, damaged: 14, abandoned: 61, captured: 211)

Ukraine - 684, of which: destroyed: 303, damaged: 20, abandoned: 37, captured: 324

Tanks (93, of which destroyed: 36, damaged: 2, abandoned: 9, captured: 44)
Armoured Fighting Vehicles (64, of which destroyed: 26, abandoned: 4, captured: 35)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (76, of which destroyed: 34, damaged: 3, abandoned: 9, captured: 30)
Armoured Personnel Carriers (31, of which destroyed: 5, damaged: 1, abandoned: 2, captured: 22)
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (48, of which destroyed: 15, damaged: 1, abandoned: 1, captured: 31)
Aircraft (15, of which destroyed: 14, damaged: 1)
Helicopters (3, of which destroyed: 2, captured: 1)
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (205, of which destroyed: 78, damaged: 5, abandoned: 5, captured: 117)


These are just the losses for which there is visual evidence.

Russia seem to be losing 80-100 pieces a day.

Yes, I love his feed. Apparently he has a 3 day backlog for his catalogue and is falling behind.

 

[jakarta]

Yes, I love his feed. Apparently he has a 3 day backlog for his catalogue and is falling behind.

Scenes, hope the ******** keep on getting their arses handed to them and hope we keep on helping the Ukrainians with gear...

 

[Eric the meek]

Anyone else following Oryx on twitter?

The amount of hardware being destroyed in this war is incredible. Russian assets are being taken out at a ratio of around 3.5:1 compared to Ukraine.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Russia - 2449, of which: destroyed: 1240, damaged: 38, abandoned: 237, captured: 934

Tanks (425, of which destroyed: 201, damaged: 6, abandoned: 42, captured: 176)
Armoured Fighting Vehicles (279, of which destroyed: 131, abandoned: 32, captured: 116)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (419, of which destroyed: 235, damaged: 2, abandoned: 31, captured: 150)
Armoured Personnel Carriers (87, of which destroyed: 24, damaged: 1, abandoned: 17, captured: 45)
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (79, of which destroyed: 45, damaged: 2, abandoned: 5, captured: 25)
Aircraft (20, of which destroyed: 19, damaged: 1)
Helicopters (32, of which destroyed: 28, damaged: 2, abandoned: 1, captured: 1)
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (702, of which destroyed: 416, damaged: 14, abandoned: 61, captured: 211)

Ukraine - 684, of which: destroyed: 303, damaged: 20, abandoned: 37, captured: 324

Tanks (93, of which destroyed: 36, damaged: 2, abandoned: 9, captured: 44)
Armoured Fighting Vehicles (64, of which destroyed: 26, abandoned: 4, captured: 35)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (76, of which destroyed: 34, damaged: 3, abandoned: 9, captured: 30)
Armoured Personnel Carriers (31, of which destroyed: 5, damaged: 1, abandoned: 2, captured: 22)
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (48, of which destroyed: 15, damaged: 1, abandoned: 1, captured: 31)
Aircraft (15, of which destroyed: 14, damaged: 1)
Helicopters (3, of which destroyed: 2, captured: 1)
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (205, of which destroyed: 78, damaged: 5, abandoned: 5, captured: 117)


These are just the losses for which there is visual evidence.

Russia seem to be losing 80-100 pieces a day.

I don't know about the other bits of kit, but this could explain why so many Russian tanks have been destroyed, captured, or nicked by Ukrainian farmers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6N-E3epLJnM

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidh...s-explode-violently-when-hit/?sh=3cedbed09fc4

 

[essbee1]

Scenes, hope the ******** keep on getting their arses handed to them and hope we keep on helping the Ukrainians with gear...

This.