[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[MJsGhost]

Regarding the above post; I'm not sure if this is the thread for it, so I may move it to another thread in time if it derails this one. This thread is specifically focused on the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the above has real potential to take this thread into the familiar rabbit hole of UK domestic tribal politics. I don't have an issue with the post itself - just the likely direction it could take an excellent thread in. (Although BBC4, Newsnight and Channel 4 have all produced far more balanced and corroborated assessments of the Putin regime in recent weeks for people interested in this stuff rather than a social media account called Led By Donkeys).

So if anyone does want to debate this stuff, maybe find another more suitable thread or use one of the ones now languishing in the Bear Pit. Just for the purposes of fair disclosure, anyone that feels compelled to take this thread off track will join those already unable to post on it. Thanks.

Roger that Bry.

I wasn't entirely sure it was the correct home, but don't tend to venture into the Pit of Doom...

 

[Bold Seagull]

is it retreading relations with a couple of Russian-British donors (Lebedev and Chernukhin), made suspicious on basis of nationality?

elsewhere, UK shipped thousands of anti-tank weapons and provided training and intelligence to Ukraine past couple of years.

Yeah, just suspicious on nationality. I'm not going to watch it or read anything further as I'm sure a British PM would never lie or deceive the British people. God Save the Queen!

 

[beorhthelm]

Yeah, just suspicious on nationality. I'm not going to watch it or read anything further as I'm sure a British PM would never lie or deceive the British people. God Save the Queen!

well of course we know he lies. the story and links have been known for years and despite all the renewed attention unchanged. no actual evidence of being agents of foreign nation, they're out for themselves. if they are agents, they are both the best, gaining access to highest office, and the worst, gaining no strategic or policy benefit.

 

[vegster]

IF Russian troops have developed acute radiation sickness after digging trenches in the Red Forest, at least one of the following, or possibly all four, had to have happened.

1) They didn't know where they were and thought they were attacking just another target.
2) They didn't fully understand the dangers at Chernobyl, or possibly hadn't even heard of it.
3) They were ordered to dig in, whether or not the commanding officer knew of the dangers.
4) Once they had dug in, no-one higher up the command chain told them to leave until now, over a month later.

I think I'm right in saying that in most army doctrines, if you are in a war zone wherever your unit stops, you dig in and fortify as a matter of course. I think there was just widespread ignorance of the situation around Chernobyl....at least by the Russians.

 

[Eric the meek]

I think I'm right in saying that in most army doctrines, if you are in a war zone wherever your unit stops, you dig in and fortify as a matter of course. I think there was just widespread ignorance of the situation around Chernobyl....at least by the Russians.

I expect you're right.

When you consider that the 1986 Chernobyl disaster would not have been widely reported on Russian state TV, if at all, and that the Russian troops shelled it before capturing it, and then dug in at the exclusion zone that is so highly contaminated that it turned the pine trees red, then it lends support to the idea that there was widespread ignorance of Chernobyl.

 

[Baldseagull]

is it retreading relations with a couple of Russian-British donors (Lebedev and Chernukhin), made suspicious on basis of nationality?

elsewhere, UK shipped thousands of anti-tank weapons and provided training and intelligence to Ukraine past couple of years.

It is not just their nationality, but their connections to the Kremlin.

 

[beorhthelm]

reports UK going to supply air-defense systems, armored vehicles and artillery.

also, Russians withdrawing from Chornobyl, apparently handed back to the engineers. while its no strategic value, and in really a massive liability, wonder if this signals the whole Kyiv axis is withdrawing?

 

[Worried Man Blues]

The Ukranians shoud wait for a strong south westerly then blow Chernobble sky high !!

 

[vegster]

As Russian forces withdraw there is increasing evidence of war crimes being committed on the local civilian population. There is a harrowing report from Jeremy Bowen with the Ukrainian forces following the Russians out of Ukraine. Also saw a report from Der Speigel reporting on human rights abuses of the local civilian population. Work is underway to collate drone and film footage with witness reports and survivors and bodies which seem to have been burnt. John Sweeney has confirmed this through his links with other journalists in country.

We sort of knew War Crimes were being committed by the simple act of shelling civilian areas but to hear some of the tales coming out of the liberated towns and villages is truly heart breaking.

 

[Triggaaar]

reports UK going to supply air-defense systems, armored vehicles and artillery.

Good - although why wasn't this started (by all allies) earlier? Russia won't stop unless they have to, so surely everything should be done to help Ukraine make this war too costly for Russia.

In other news:
Overnight, a Russian oil depot blew up. Russia claims it was caused by Ukrainian helicopters, which flew in at low altitude. Ukrainian officials have denied causing it.

With no insight into it, I'd guess that it was Ukraine (rather than a false flag) and that they're joining Russia in denying everything. Maybe the denial is simply so that Russia can't put the confession on state TV. I've also seen reporters mention concern that Russia will use the attack to escalate the violence, perhaps with chemical weapons. That's something I don't understand - Russia are bombing the shit out of Ukraine, including targeting civilians - why wouldn't / shouldn't Ukraine respond? If Russia deem it necessary to escalate the war then I'd expect them to do so regardless of Ukraine's tactics.

 

[Taybha]

Putin's got some front whingeing about Ukraine targeting a oil depot, I guess he doesn't realise that once Ukraine has all it's new weapons up and running he'll be copping a lot more senseless destruction on his own turf, Russians will soon know there's actually a war going on rather than some sort of special operation where Russia murders civilians with targeted long range weapons as their soldiers bottle it when met with resistance.

I reckon the words how dare they bomb us have been rattling around in his demented brain quite a bit this morning. Soppy Cun*t actually thinks he's doing the world a favour.

 

[Eric the meek]

Good - although why wasn't this started (by all allies) earlier? Russia won't stop unless they have to, so surely everything should be done to help Ukraine make this war too costly for Russia.

In other news:
Overnight, a Russian oil depot blew up. Russia claims it was caused by Ukrainian helicopters, which flew in at low altitude. Ukrainian officials have denied causing it.

With no insight into it, I'd guess that it was Ukraine (rather than a false flag) and that they're joining Russia in denying everything. Maybe the denial is simply so that Russia can't put the confession on state TV. I've also seen reporters mention concern that Russia will use the attack to escalate the violence, perhaps with chemical weapons. That's something I don't understand - Russia are bombing the shit out of Ukraine, including targeting civilians - why wouldn't / shouldn't Ukraine respond? If Russia deem it necessary to escalate the war then I'd expect them to do so regardless of Ukraine's tactics.

I don't understand it either. Russia has used that tactic a number of times now. It thinks Russia can do whatever it likes, but it warns other nations from doing likewise, with various threats.

NATO cannot act inside Ukraine, otherwise that would be an escalation.
Russia will respond to 'unfriendly' nations over sanctions. (Isn't invading a neighbouring country unfriendly?)
Now Ukraine can't take the war inside Russia. 'Kremlin: Reports of Ukrainian strikes on Russian depot won't help talks'.

Is it arrogance? An over-inflated sense of entitlement? Or is it a whole level more delusional than that?

 

[Albion in the north]

I don't understand it either. Russia has used that tactic a number of times now. It thinks Russia can do whatever it likes, but it warns other nations from doing likewise, with various threats.

NATO cannot act inside Ukraine, otherwise that would be an escalation.
Russia will respond to 'unfriendly' nations over sanctions. (Isn't invading a neighbouring country unfriendly?)
Now Ukraine can't take the war inside Russia. 'Kremlin: Reports of Ukrainian strikes on Russian depot won't help talks'.

Is it arrogance? An over-inflated sense of entitlement? Or is it a whole level more delusional than that?

Ukraine was always referred to as "Little Russia" by Russians and seen as an inferior people.

 

[Carlos BC]

Putin's got some front whingeing about Ukraine targeting a oil depot, I guess he doesn't realise that once Ukraine has all it's new weapons up and running he'll be copping a lot more senseless destruction on his own turf, Russians will soon know there's actually a war going on rather than some sort of special operation where Russia murders civilians with targeted long range weapons as their soldiers bottle it when met with resistance.

I reckon the words how dare they bomb us have been rattling around in his demented brain quite a bit this morning. Soppy Cun*t actually thinks he's doing the world a favour.

I was thinking this earlier today, probably sounds strange but I feel very 'proud' of the Ukrainians if that is the right word.
Good luck to them, Russia and Shit tin are going to do whatever they want to unless stopped and what is wrong with the Ukrainians going cross border. A fuel depot undoubtedly being used to supply the Russian military is a far more legitimate target than blocks of flats.

I am sure it won't happen but wouldn't it be lovely if Ukraine drove them out and took a 20 mile wide strip of Russia along the border as a buffer zone as well. F u ck the Russians in the ear, murdering b a stards

 

[Wozza]

 

[Flex Your Head]

I feel a wee bit concerned that Putin is moving his troops away from Kyiv because he intends to use a non conventional weapon(s) in the area. Talk of him having 'lost the battle for Kyiv' will not be appreciated by him and he will want vengeance.

 

[dazzer6666]

Another interesting thread……

[tweet]1509956655928258570[/tweet]

 

[vegster]

I feel a wee bit concerned that Putin is moving his troops away from Kyiv because he intends to use a non conventional weapon(s) in the area. Talk of him having 'lost the battle for Kyiv' will not be appreciated by him and he will want vengeance.

Yes, can see your point Putin could well drop a tactical nuke on Zelenskys bunker in Kyiv in order to destroy Ukraine's command and control centre and send a devastating message ...I'd like to think that the US has a range of Russian base's on a list and if Putin is that stupid a naval dockyard or army base will wink out in retaliation.

 

[Eric the meek]

This is an interesting article, written in 2016, after Russia's annexation of Crimea.

https://www.businessinsider.com/10-maps-that-explain-russias-strategy-2016-1?r=US&IR=T

It provides historical, topographical and ethnic context to Russia's strategy along its western border, in a series of maps.

 

[Igzilla]

Grim reports of mass graves and civilian murders in Kyiv oblast.